Laura Hoffman: Microsoft AI for Good

[00:00:00] Jonathan Sposato: What if the future of AI isn’t just about technology, but about trust, ethics, and real humans? Today’s guest knows exactly why that matters.

[00:00:13] Jonathan Sposato: When we think about the future of technology, it’s easy to picture flashy gadgets or complex code. But today’s guest reminds us that behind every innovation there are people, thoughtful, passionate people who are shaping the way we move forward. Laura Hoffman is one of those people. She’s an AI principal PM manager at Microsoft where she leads teams working on some of the most exciting and impactful tech happening today.

[00:00:39] Jonathan Sposato: AI for good. And before Microsoft, she built her career at Amazon gaining a front row seat to how innovations like the Kindle can change the world. But what makes Laura stand out isn’t just her technical expertise, it’s her heart. She’s a huge animal lover, especially when it comes to horses. And she’s never happier than when she’s out in [00:01:00] nature hiking the trails around Seattle.

[00:01:03] Jonathan Sposato: Today we’ll be diving into a world of ai, what it means for all of us, and why human connection is the difference maker. Laura, I am thrilled you’re here. Welcome to the Seattle Magazine podcast.

[00:01:15] Laura Hoffman: Thank you very much. I’m so thrilled to be here.

[00:01:18] Jonathan Sposato: For our audience, there are, so many different kinds of titles at tech companies, program manager, product manager, product planner, product marketer.

[00:01:28] Jonathan Sposato: Tell us what is meant by principal PM manager?

[00:01:33] Laura Hoffman: That’s a great question. What a product manager does, we are the keepers of the why. The why are we doing this? What is our true challenge that we’re trying to solve for people? Keeping that at the forefront is the really the true product manager’s role.

[00:01:48] Jonathan Sposato: I like that. Keepers of the why I was once a PM at Microsoft and had a number of different. Variations on that title, and I wish that I had known that it was keepers of the Y. Yeah. That’s so cool.

[00:01:59] Laura Hoffman: Yeah, [00:02:00] because it’s really about what’s the customer trying to achieve? What is the challenge that they have Now, when we talk about with our collaborators in AI for Good lab, it’s what’s the problem they’re trying to solve with ai?

[00:02:11] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. Why are they trying to solve it?

[00:02:13] Jonathan Sposato: Very good. Very good. If you are a sort of hero of sorts for aspiring young people, particularly young women, how would you advise them to become you?

[00:02:25] Laura Hoffman: Be curious and fearless.

[00:02:27] Jonathan Sposato: I see.

[00:02:27] Laura Hoffman: I really think that’s key.

[00:02:29] Laura Hoffman: Along my career I would never be able to say how I got here, and I would never have been able to say, here’s where I go next, and next. But the thing that has opened all the opportunities to say, why not?

[00:02:41] Jonathan Sposato: Why not do this? Can you give us an example of where you’ve been fearless or said, why not?

[00:02:46] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, I,

[00:02:46] Laura Hoffman: somebody said at one point somebody said we need one of those website things. I don’t know. And I said I could probably build that. I don’t know, maybe I could build that. And then along the way, then another point in time, they said, you [00:03:00] know, I think we need one of those.

[00:03:01] Laura Hoffman: iPhone apps, and I was like I could probably do that. You know? So just along the way, it’s just being mm-hmm. ultimately curious. I think I have lifetimes worth of curiosity that I haven’t even explored yet.

[00:03:12] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. That’s awesome. And I like that. Perspective, that ahead of you, there’s still a lifetime’s worth of curiosity to explore.

[00:03:20] Jonathan Sposato: I like that idea. I’m gonna steal some of that, steal some of that that inspiring energy. So, you know, sometimes I think that at big companies, particularly big organizations like Microsoft, people can be scared to talk to the boss to pitch them an idea, or sometimes you have to tell the boss bad news, Hey, we should kill this product, or whatever.

[00:03:38] Jonathan Sposato: So curious to know, what’s it like to do for you to do a successful product review with upper management or with your CEO, Satya. What’s that like?

[00:03:50] Laura Hoffman: I think it’s about being genuine and if you know what you’re talking about, if you understand again that why and what you’re trying to achieve and who you’re trying to achieve that [00:04:00] for, how what you are doing will make life better for them.

[00:04:04] Laura Hoffman: I think that. even if it’s bad news, it’s about, okay, this is where we’re not making it right now and achieving that, and here’s what we can do to overcome that challenge that we have. And so I think if as long as you talk from a genuine place and you know why you’re doing something, I think they’re just human.

[00:04:25] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. That’s just like us, right? Yeah,

[00:04:27] Jonathan Sposato: exactly. No, no. certainly sit here as the host of this podcast wearing the Seattle magazine owner and publisher hat. Yeah. But I remember back in the day, my own reflections about how to do well at a meeting with Bill or with Steve or with Nathan.

[00:04:42] Jonathan Sposato: Was exactly that. It felt like Used the words genuine. I would also throw in there a different variation of that, which is just being truthful.

[00:04:50] Laura Hoffman: That’s right. And, and,

[00:04:50] Jonathan Sposato: and it, it felt like, I had a lucky run where I felt like that I always did well with Bill.

[00:04:56] Jonathan Sposato: And in fact it got to the point where later in my [00:05:00] career, sometimes the it’s not necessarily my conversation to have with. Bill, but others would say, Jonathan, when could you talk to Bill about it? Right. and I felt as though that if there was any sort of. Positioning or you’re trying to frame the conversation in a way that’s a little bit off of where it should be.

[00:05:19] Jonathan Sposato: That’s where trouble begins, and that’s where you’re not completely being authentic about what’s happening. And so, um, now I wanna segue to what have been some of your best successes in those situations?

[00:05:32] Laura Hoffman: I can remember very early on in my career and I was so young and I ended up sitting outside waiting for my turn to present to the highest senior executives at Microsoft at the time, and I heard a lot of yelling. at the team before me, and I’m sitting outside waiting for my turn. and then they were asked to leave earlier than expected. Oh boy. Yeah, because it didn’t go very well. Right. [00:06:00] And so I’m sitting outside thinking Here we go.

[00:06:02] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. And so, um, so I understand the feeling, by the way. Yeah. And I, and we, I went in and, um, I just said what I thought was the thing that we should do. Mm-hmm. And, um, we were well prepared as a, as a small little team, scrappy team and I was like, wow, what happened?

[00:06:24] Laura Hoffman: Because they, maybe they got some lunch or something. It went very well. And and I’ll still remember that because it was just, about preparation, about knowing. am being passionate about, what you’re what you’re presenting. And I think that’s just the difference.

[00:06:38] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Very good. Very good. ’cause you

[00:06:40] Laura Hoffman: can take a lot of different feedback and it just because you get something negative in return, you don’t have to respond or be defensive about it. It’s more information, it’s more learning.

[00:06:49] Jonathan Sposato: Well Said. Tell a general audience tell our listeners out there.

[00:06:53] Jonathan Sposato: what does AI for good mean?

[00:06:56] Laura Hoffman: So AI for Good the Lab. That’s where I work at [00:07:00] Microsoft. And we are a purely philanthropic group within Microsoft, which is a really, I mean, it’s amazing. It’s an amazing group to work in and I feel so lucky after this long in technology to be able to have this point in my career to be in philanthropy at Microsoft.

[00:07:16] Laura Hoffman: And so our full goal in AI for Good is to. Provide a juxtaposition for sometimes what the media likes to focus on, which is the AI can be used as a tool or it can be used as a weapon. Mm-hmm. Brad says that our brad Smith our group leader and the president. One of the presidents at Microsoft says that and as a tool that’s really how can AI be used to solve some of the world’s biggest, challenges that the world faces.

[00:07:44] Laura Hoffman: So I. There are some challenges that we face that it’s not like AI is one of the options to solve these challenges. There are some challenges that we’re facing that AI is really the only option to solve some of these challenges. Yeah. And so that’s really [00:08:00] what AI for Good is. It’s finding those challenges where AI our only option.

[00:08:04] Laura Hoffman: And then being able to put the resources that Microsoft has in particular in our group and the research scientists to be able to try and solve those challenges.

[00:08:13] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Very good. So perhaps it’s appropriate to ask the following question, which is what are on the other side of it what are some of the biggest misconceptions that you think people have about ai?

[00:08:25] Laura Hoffman: That AI is magic.

[00:08:26] Laura Hoffman: Ai is really. it’s an amazing machine and it’s what we make it, and so it’s really important for us to keep that challenge and then keep AI for good at the forefront of all of our thinking of solutions. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:44] Jonathan Sposato: I have heard it said and actually I’ll give proper attribution to, to my good friend or an ET who was at the Allen Institute that, people shouldn’t be afraid of ai. People shouldn’t be afraid of AI taking over their [00:09:00] jobs. They might be a little bit scared of their jobs being taken by someone else who’s really good at using ai. But AI itself is not the threat. it’s so

[00:09:09] Laura Hoffman: true and I love it when I can help everyone in my life understand how to use AI to make their lives easier.

[00:09:17] Laura Hoffman: To be better. To allow them to do more. That, makes my day. Mm-hmm. And I, honestly, I find that every day I’m in that mode where I’m like, have you tried copilot for this? Mm-hmm. You know, or I some information for a, a dear friend of mine because she’s facing this challenge just using copilot, able to send her a step by step to help her with her challenge. It’s amazing. Yeah.

[00:09:42] Jonathan Sposato: Can I tell you a bit of a secret? Yeah, absolutely. That I’ll share now with our many, hundreds of thousands of listeners. And that is that when I wasn’t sure. I was gonna get a photo, a high res photo of you. I asked AI to give me a high resolution [00:10:00] photo of you and it was awesome.

[00:10:02] Jonathan Sposato: I was gonna, of course I would ask you permission beforehand. Beforehand. My gosh. Before, but that was my back backup. You have to send it now. Yeah, because that was my backup.

[00:10:08] Laura Hoffman: I was so, I should have done that. cause I was scrambling on that front. Is that right? So I’m like, yeah. So for, we should use it.

[00:10:14] Jonathan Sposato: Laura sent us an amazing photo, which you are obviously taking a look at at this point. But the AI photo was to me virtually in, I mean, you could have, thought that, well, that’s, that’s, that’s a photo of her standing there. It is amazing, isn’t it? Yeah.

[00:10:28] Laura Hoffman: I know Oren and, true media. Mm-hmm. And we actually partnered with Oren and True Media. Mm-hmm. From, from AI for Good Lab, helping regulators and industry experts understand how to help people think about whether what they’re seeing has been AI altered or not. right. And so it’s super interesting work. Yeah, exactly. And it has come to the point with where you have about as much of a flip of a coin opportunity. That’s right. Understanding to know whether something is AI generated or not.

[00:10:55] Jonathan Sposato: Right. that, again, I’ll kind of take this opportunity to underscore the earlier point about [00:11:00] that anything that’s threatening about it is not the AI itself, but the person behind. That’s exactly right. The use of the tool. If somebody that’s right wanted to be unscrupulous to generate a photo that’s non flattering or whatever it would be the person doing that.

[00:11:11] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, that’s exactly

[00:11:12] Laura Hoffman: right. And on the flip side of that, AI can help, expand the opportunity to understand or to experience something like what we did with the Vatican. and creating a digital twin of the St. Peter’s Basilica. that’s an amazing use.

[00:11:27] Jonathan Sposato: This is a perfect segue because I, like millions of people. My son and I love playing Minecraft. We like to play it together. Mm-hmm. That’s kind of like a nice father-son thing that we do.

[00:11:38] Laura Hoffman: That’s cool.

[00:11:38] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Because then we communicate and it’s collaborative. That’s right. And then he’s the leader. He’s the person who has deep, category expertise in this.

[00:11:47] Jonathan Sposato: And I’m just the follower. Yeah. And I think that that’s a nice, yeah. Refreshing change of pace, So tell us about Peter is here. AI for cultural heritage.

[00:11:56] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. The Peter is here is an extension of a [00:12:00] larger collaboration we did with the Vatican team. And the Minecraft extension really allows for people. To be able to use that medium to expose themselves to experiences that they may not otherwise be interested in. Mm-hmm. I mean, how many times if you try to, and now how old is your son?

[00:12:20] Jonathan Sposato: He’s now 15.

[00:12:21] Jonathan Sposato: Okay. Mm-hmm. So he’s

[00:12:21] Laura Hoffman: 15. And when our kids were a certain age mm-hmm. thinking to drag them to a museum. Mm. Not really a thing. Not happening. Yeah. Not happening. Maybe you had 30 minutes. Maybe you really, you have to something like you,

[00:12:33] Jonathan Sposato: If you go to the museum with us, then you get this other thing, right?

[00:12:35] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Right. Right.

[00:12:36] Laura Hoffman: so this is a great example of being able to experience this in a different way that’s more accessible, more meaningful, more engaging. And allows them to experience history and experience culture. And that connects us. when you have those kind of experiences, you make those kind of connections with other people, with, with the culture.

[00:12:58] Laura Hoffman: And I think that’s really important. So that’s what our [00:13:00] culture AI initiative does.

[00:13:01] Jonathan Sposato: as a former product person, as a former pm Yeah. you know, I understand a Minecraft component of it. Mm-hmm. I understand the, architecture of the environment and all that.

[00:13:08] Jonathan Sposato: How, How did AI come into play in that particular scenario? Yeah,

[00:13:12] Laura Hoffman: So St. Peter’s basilica is huge. And our biggest goal was to use ai. To help us create that same sense of awe. And inspiration that you get when you’re there. I I mean, You can put the Statue of Liberty, full Statue of Liberty standing straight up in the dome. Is

[00:13:28] Jonathan Sposato: that right?

[00:13:29] Laura Hoffman: Of St. Peter’s basilica. Wow. So it’s a pretty awe inspiring experience when you go there. And our goal in using AI was to create that same awe inspiring experience both in person with a new exhibit in the digital twin to do tours and in the Minecraft experience.

[00:13:47] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. So we started with over 400,000 photos of every single place, off limits places that people normally do not get to tour which was amazing. Mm-hmm. And and then [00:14:00] we used AI to create a model. And then we use that model. More AI on top of that.

[00:14:07] Laura Hoffman: To make that model accessible in a digital experience, which, used a technology called Gian Splats. Mm-hmm. Which is a really technical way to say that it recreated using ai. Mm-hmm. It recreated a photorealistic scene mm-hmm. that you could travel and move through in 3D Yeah. Or in Minecraft you could build.

[00:14:25] Laura Hoffman: your universe in Minecraft.

[00:14:27] Laura Hoffman: and that Gian splat technology didn’t even exist six months before we used it.

[00:14:32] Jonathan Sposato: Mm mm mm-hmm.

[00:14:34] Laura Hoffman: So it’s super fascinating how fast AI is moving.

[00:14:37] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, for sure.

[00:14:37] Laura Hoffman: And that it unlocked your ability to walk through in on your iPhone or to play that Minecraft education game.

[00:14:46] Laura Hoffman: That Peter is here. Game.

[00:14:47] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. That’s great. I am reminded of some of the early work that Corbus or Continuum was doing back in the day that, yeah. That, also in the context of a user scenario of navigating an a museum environment.

[00:14:59] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. Yeah. I think it [00:15:00] was the Barnes connection. That’s so funny. Collection. Oh yeah. Do you have a story about that? Yeah, I

[00:15:03] Laura Hoffman: was, no, I was just, I was uh, related to that that work mm-hmm. Way, way back in the day. Mm-hmm. So I know of that work.

[00:15:09] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was at Continuum before they became Corbus.

[00:15:14] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. And was, um, working, I didn’t work on that. Project, but there was a lot of spillover of a lot of that thinking onto other projects that we were incubating at the time. Mm-hmm. So, um, Have no idea what Gian Blatt means. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s, I’m imagining that it’s some way that it translates or extrudes Yeah.

[00:15:31] Jonathan Sposato: From the, that’s 2D data and make it 3D and stitch it all together and

[00:15:34] Laura Hoffman: Fills in all the, all the holes, fills in the holes. Yeah. And so that your eye it has to serve a fraction Yeah. Of the amount of information. Yeah. And so that it can be viewed. Yeah. And you can move around on the phone.

[00:15:45] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. In a mobile environment with that much bandwidth. Yeah. Yeah. But that your eye sees it as a full 3D environment.

[00:15:52] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Super cool. Super cool. I would imagine that there’s applications in gaming as well. Yes. Absolutely. Um, does it happen in re does it render in real time? Mm-hmm. [00:16:00] Or is it Yeah. Amazing.

[00:16:01] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. So then gaming would be a very suitable application. Very cool. Okay, so we’re now gonna segue to something a little bit different. This is an incredible year for Microsoft It’s Microsoft’s 50th anniversary, which is incredible to me. And I, I think I spoke about this at a Microsoft 50th Geek Wire event that I remember.

[00:16:20] Jonathan Sposato: My father, I. When I was 15, I think driving past the construction site in Redmond. And this was when Microsoft was still on the, that side of five 20 In those buildings Yeah. That they did not own, but when they were constructing a new campus. I remember my dad driving me past and we pulled the car over and it was like a wooded area, but you could see the construction happening in the buildings, some of the buildings being framed, and he says, son, someday you may work there.

[00:16:49] Jonathan Sposato: And then sure enough, a few years later, and I think of that time, it’s almost a cognitive. It’s almost like my brain can’t handle that here. This company, which has an [00:17:00] amazing brand of always being innovative and cutting edge and a tech company that it’s 50 years old. Yeah, right. that’s amazing.

[00:17:07] Laura Hoffman: Yeah, it is. It’s

[00:17:08] Jonathan Sposato: amazing. That’s amazing. And so, when you, someone of your stature, Laura, someone who’s done all the work. You can show all your receipts as a product person, but yet you are high level and strategic in your thinking, and you’ve got such a broad view of the entire industry as you reflect on Microsoft’s 50th anniversary.

[00:17:28] Jonathan Sposato: How do you think about the state of the industry and Microsoft’s contributions to it and what its ongoing role is in the industry?

[00:17:40] Laura Hoffman: Yeah, I think that’s a great question and I, I, I feel so proud. I feel so lucky. I feel so fortunate to be at this company at this moment. Especially with ai. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:52] Laura Hoffman: You know, A lot of companies use ai. I think the mission of Microsoft really guides. Its future and has put [00:18:00] us squarely at the front of the AI revolution. And I, the reason I say that is because we’ve put people first. It’s about empowering people, that’s the mission. to do more.

[00:18:09] Laura Hoffman: And I feel like that’s really led us to be at the front of the pack. And it’s what makes me really excited and proud to be at this company doing this because we’ve put people first. And I think I think that’s great. Yeah. No,

[00:18:22] Jonathan Sposato: that’s good. If I could just drill down a little bit on that I’m also, one of the things that I like to geek out about is company culture.

[00:18:28] Jonathan Sposato: and I’m curious to know how leading with people first came about. Is it that, Leadership directed. Is it a function of the people that Microsoft has hired and you get a critical mass of a certain type of person that thinks about leading with people people first?

[00:18:46] Jonathan Sposato: How, How does that happen?

[00:18:47] Laura Hoffman: I think that’s right. I think that all those things are right. I think that it comes, the company culture comes from the top and I think Satya has set an amazing vision and culture and is set. A [00:19:00] baseline for what’s acceptable is our culture. And I think that there’s, I’ve worked a lot of places in technology and I’ve had a lot of different roles. You mentioned Amazon as one of them. And. The people at Microsoft are so smart, so brilliant, so collaborative. The culture particularly now is so collaborative and so focused on helping people. And empowering people.

[00:19:23] Laura Hoffman: So I, I just love it. We could be at other places figuring out how to get people to view more ads or do more something.

[00:19:31] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah.

[00:19:31] Laura Hoffman: But that’s not what we’re about.

[00:19:33] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. And

[00:19:34] Laura Hoffman: I feel very fortunate.

[00:19:35] Jonathan Sposato: I, I’m always fascinated by stuff like this because I myself worked at Microsoft and I’ve, Google also twice.

[00:19:41] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. And, and, uh, and of course startups and things like that and the differences in companies. I’ve not worked at Amazon, although I’ve collaborated with some really nice people there. And there are differences in how people approach and what they considered a high order bit that they lead with. I’ll go to this question if I may, which is what are some interesting [00:20:00] differences that you might describe between Microsoft and Amazon?

[00:20:04] Laura Hoffman: I felt very fortunate to work at both because one of the things that I loved about Amazon is that they say that they’re customer centered. And they really are. I think that’s the thing that I loved most about it.

[00:20:15] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah,

[00:20:16] Laura Hoffman: Microsoft, I feel like they’re always thinking what’s possible, what’s next? Why couldn’t we, why can’t we? Of course we can. I think the growth mindset culture that we’ve adopted as one of our major traits, that growth mindset is really important and I find that it guides my thinking both inside and outside of work.

[00:20:38] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. Laura. You know I’ve heard a lot about how AI for Good, that there are beneficiaries of that effort. There are a awardees, if you will. Can you talk a little bit about what that is? I.

[00:20:52] Laura Hoffman: So AI for Good lab, we don’t do anything without collaborating with the experts. So we bring the technology, the [00:21:00] experts, bring the knowledge about the challenge that we’re trying to solve.

[00:21:02] Laura Hoffman: Mm. And they really understand whether what we’re proposing as to how we’re gonna solve that challenge with AI is really gonna work.

[00:21:10] Laura Hoffman: In real life. the AI for Good Lab was really excited as a celebration, as part of the celebration of Microsoft’s 50th and celebrating the future of how AI can keep us and power us for the next 50.

[00:21:22] Laura Hoffman: I. We ran an open call in Washington to find new collaborative partners with new challenges that we can solve with ai. So we, as a part of that, we have 20 new awardees and we’re very excited about that that will partner with and collaborate with over the next. Five years.

[00:21:42] Jonathan Sposato: Can you gimme some examples of these?

[00:21:43] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. For, yeah.

[00:21:44] Laura Hoffman: So we have everything and they, they really address challenges in multiple different areas. So whether that’s sustainability, whether it’s the organization that we’re working with to do remote monitoring of wildlife and [00:22:00] biodiversity, whether it’s that or whether it’s rural education with Washington State University, they’re working on some, how can we use AI to help rural teachers to be able to create curriculum that Skills, children and youth in ai. As part of the curriculum when they may not have the skills mm-hmm. themselves to be able to do that. How can you use AI to help you teach ai? Interesting. As an example. or whether it’s helping the, the radiology department of University of Washington help make, I’m reading your report. That can seem sometimes, like for a very important topic, create a lot of anxiety and angst about deciphering what does this really mean for me? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it’s helping them make those more patient friendly.

[00:22:42] Laura Hoffman: or whether it’s goodwill mm-hmm. and helping them, make it a more efficient process to be able to take in what they have as donations. And to be able to find the right pricing for them. Understanding whether that product is available to be resold right now, that’s.

[00:22:59] Laura Hoffman: A, a very [00:23:00] manual effort. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they can’t get what they need to power, and that’s how they fund being able to understand that and price that and sell those items is how they fund their other efforts. So it’s, yeah. Those kind of things. So That’s amazing. That’s just a, that’s just a handful of the projects that came in.

[00:23:15] Laura Hoffman: We were Yeah. So amazed.

[00:23:17] Jonathan Sposato: that’s super cool. And related to that. How do you propose, Laura, that we always make sure, it sounds like that there’s really great effort underway already. Yeah. In what you’ve just described, but how does, how do we make sure that these AI tools are accessible and inclusive for everyone?

[00:23:33] Jonathan Sposato: I.

[00:23:34] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. Inclusiveness is something that the lab thinks about a lot. When we think about the challenge that we’re trying to solve, we think about how can this solution not just work for this one group? How can it work for this same challenge maybe worldwide? Mm-hmm. We’ll start here, but we’ll build, right?

[00:23:53] Laura Hoffman: So where we tend to focus is where AI can work because The scale [00:24:00] is such that AI can make it accessible to everyone. Mm-hmm. Or that AI can make, a challenge that is something that is, the human brain can’t make those connections. Mm-hmm. So it makes it accessible in now those two ways.

[00:24:14] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. Good answer. I would imagine that there’s probably also maybe a, still a Moore’s Law. In effect with ai, which is that things get more powerful and also cheaper and therefore more accessible to everyone. As we. Move forward in time, would you say? Oh I,

[00:24:29] Laura Hoffman: AI is moving so quickly mm-hmm. that things that our researchers used six months ago

[00:24:33] Laura Hoffman: Are no longer, or challenges that we may have said. ’cause often we get a lot of different project perspectives mm-hmm. You know, and project proposals all the time. Yeah. As a lab. And sometimes we set them aside and we just choose not to do them.

[00:24:48] Laura Hoffman: And that can be for a different number of different reasons. One could be because we find we. Whereas there’s an AI for good aspect, there might be an alternative use if we were to produce this, [00:25:00] that we choose from an ethical perspective not to take this on.

[00:25:03] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:03] Laura Hoffman: Or it might be because we don’t see a way yet.

[00:25:08] Laura Hoffman: ’cause we’re an applied lab, an applied research lab. We don’t see a way yet that we think that AI could be successful, but things are moving so quickly that we often come back to things that we said that about six months ago. And there’s something that AI can solve now. the power of what we all have every day in our phones just with copilot or things like that can make a meaningful difference to all of us. Mm-hmm. At this point.

[00:25:35] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Very good. Very good. That, that, that actually reminds me. The following question, which is, what are some things that keep you up at night in terms of ethical or societal challenges with ai? how would it go wrong

[00:25:49] Jonathan Sposato: if it were to go

[00:25:49] Laura Hoffman: wrong?

[00:25:49] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. I mean, I think that we think about, like I said, we think about that all the time. And I wouldn’t say it keeps me up. What keeps me up on the flip side is how can we do more.

[00:25:58] Jonathan Sposato: I see.

[00:25:59] Laura Hoffman: That’s what [00:26:00] probably keeps me up most is that, oh, we did this. One thing over here, like for example we did the St.

[00:26:07] Laura Hoffman: Peters Basilica. We talked about that. The digital twin. That’s great that we did that one place, that one thing, that one cultural experience. Mm-hmm. But how can we unlock the capability for a thousand organizations to use that ST technology that we did? And do it for a thousand more.

[00:26:23] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:23] Laura Hoffman: So it keeps me up more at night to think about how can we unlock more capability for more people. Mm-hmm. Because that’s what their lab is about. It’s about, sharing with the world. we, um, we open source everything. Mm-hmm. That’s our goal. Mm-hmm.

[00:26:37] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:37] Laura Hoffman: Our goal is to say, okay, we’re gonna do this the first time.

[00:26:41] Laura Hoffman: We’re gonna give the world a recipe for how we did this, but then we want the world to take this and do it for everyone. And so it’s really, it’s about that.

[00:26:50] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. You know, I ask every smart person, I come across smart, way smarter than I like you that. If you were to imagine the future, [00:27:00] do you see a dystopian blade runner like future or a utopian Star Trek like future?

[00:27:07] Laura Hoffman: Star Trek. ’cause I am a Star Trek fan. Oh, you’re a Star Trek fan. Me too. I am. I’ve

[00:27:11] Jonathan Sposato: gone to conventions. Okay. Which I have a uniform. Oh,

[00:27:14] Laura Hoffman: you, oh, what? Yeah. Okay. Which series? Uniform. That’s the big question. Oh, which series?

[00:27:18] Jonathan Sposato: Uniform is star Trek the Next Generation. Oh, see

[00:27:21] Laura Hoffman: that was mine too.

[00:27:22] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, that was for me, that was college. And we used to, I used to host. Star Trek parties, every, I can’t remember, it was Thursday night or Tuesday the night that it was on. That’s all my friends would come over

[00:27:34] Jonathan Sposato: and we would watch it.

[00:27:35] Jonathan Sposato: So that’s, that’s, um, I mean, I love

[00:27:37] Laura Hoffman: it and I, I feel like we’re, and is

[00:27:39] Jonathan Sposato: That’s your favorite?

[00:27:40] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. Yeah. Next generation is definitely my favorite. And. think we’re there. To answer your question mm-hmm. I see it as a Star Trek utopian future.

[00:27:47] Laura Hoffman: but even in, I mean, if we’re gonna go there mm-hmm. even in Star Trek, go There were those times where they had those ethical questions. Mm-hmm. Is this the, you know, the prime directive questions, right. is this advancing things? Yeah. Yeah. Should we get [00:28:00] involved here? Can this be used for bad? Mm-hmm. As a weapon? And so those same questions that they were constantly, that series was constantly exploring.

[00:28:09] Laura Hoffman: are the same questions we are constantly exploring too. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:12] Jonathan Sposato: And it shows success. And really any good sci-fi is exploring those same issues right. Through the lens of humanity. That’s right. At that, at what point is data sentient.

[00:28:21] Laura Hoffman: That’s exactly right.

[00:28:22] Jonathan Sposato: but I mean,

[00:28:23] Laura Hoffman: Even on, on Star Trek as an example, the health scans, you know, they sent people to somewhere mm-hmm. and then they, magically you were healed. Uhhuh. Right. Like and we’re so much closer than we are further than away. from AI being be able to provide some of those same kind of capabilities.

[00:28:41] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That’s just amazing. Totally.

[00:28:44] Jonathan Sposato: By the way, star Trek’s near and dear to me as it relates to Microsoft as well, because I was able to survive in Microsoft research before it was actually named MSR. It was just Microsoft research because I would always every meeting [00:29:00] that I would have with Rick Rashid.

[00:29:01] Jonathan Sposato: Would begin and end with, did you see the last episode? Isn’t that gosh. Cool. Oh

[00:29:06] Laura Hoffman: my gosh. Making that human connection, right? Making that

[00:29:08] Jonathan Sposato: human connection with Rick, who, for our listeners, Rick was a head of research at that point. And a great guy. So I, that’s fun. I wish him more Star Trek viewing, especially the new series.

[00:29:18] Jonathan Sposato: Strange New Worlds. I love it. Great answer. Thank you. So, so, Are there any surprising lessons or pivots in your current role working in the AI lab where you feel that you are a better principal PM as a result?

[00:29:33] Laura Hoffman: this role more than any in my entire career, it has, has made me be better because there’s so much opportunity that every day you come to work thinking, how can I be better? How can I use AI today that I couldn’t use it yesterday? Because it used to be that they said technology. If you were an engineer. Software engineer about every 18 months.

[00:29:59] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] The tools that you used, right? Mm-hmm. Were different.

[00:30:02] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:03] Laura Hoffman: Full a hundred percent change up of the tools that you’d use. With ai that has only accelerated Yeah, sure. Significantly. And so, Constantly being able to challenge yourself to say, what’s possible?

[00:30:17] Laura Hoffman: What could I create today? How could I build that? Because there are new models coming out every day.

[00:30:22] Laura Hoffman: There’s new possibilities every day. That’s inspiring and it just continues to make you wanna grow every day.

[00:30:28] Laura Hoffman: Our research scientists are even struggling to keep up these days.

[00:30:31] Jonathan Sposato: I bet. I bet. as a consumer, I’m tremendously excited about how fast. Things are moving because when you dream about having some form of superpowers right on your desktop, the ability to visualize a, a scene from a script, to visualize it as a moving picture, as a funnel.

[00:30:51] Jonathan Sposato: I know, right? It’s kind. There,

[00:30:54] Laura Hoffman: it’s amazing because it’s giving us an ability to learn and connect with each other. you know, you [00:31:00] talked earlier about making things accessible. Yeah. One of the things we’re working on for a certain um, exhibit mm-hmm. Is to be able to, create accessibility features because mm-hmm. One thing that’s in a museum or a museum experience that’s really challenging for them is when they change a museum exhibit, it’s really difficult for them to keep up and have audio narrations about what the exhibit is, or if you might be site challenged et cetera. And so there’s kind of one way to pull this information, you know, in a traditional exhibit. This is just one, just small example. and that’s by looking at something and absorbing it. AI just gives us a. a world of new tools to be able to connect with people and connect people with other experiences.

[00:31:46] Laura Hoffman: And I think that’s so cool. So we can use AI just in a fraction of a minute to look, to take pictures of a, of an exhibit and then to narrate what it’s seeing to someone that might have side challenges. [00:32:00] Neat. So if they change that exhibit tomorrow, I can rerun that tomorrow and give you that same thing.

[00:32:05] Laura Hoffman: it’s amazing. Cool. Yeah. Or I can help researchers, I can help researchers of any type, might be for, some sort of cultural experience. It might be for some sort of medical understanding. It might be for sustainability. We’ve done a project in that area as well, and to be able to bring all those needles in a haystack, a data haystack together.

[00:32:23] Laura Hoffman: One of the things that we do is work in biodiversity. A lot. And a researcher in biodiversity, this is what their life looks like. Let’s just say that they work on birds in the Amazon. Some of the work, work that we do, what their life looks like is I hike out into the jungle.

[00:32:39] Laura Hoffman: I put out into the jungle sound devices, maybe some devices that take pictures. Camera traps they call ’em. Mm. And I’m looking for this specific bird. Mm-hmm. Now this bird may be really endangered, so they. Idea that I may see that bird every day is not a thing. Mm-hmm. And I might see it, I might not.

[00:32:55] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. I might get a sound of a bird, I might not. Mm-hmm. And it’d be [00:33:00] hours and days of photos and hours and days of audio recordings. Mm-hmm. So I hike out with my battery packs, with my camera, with my audio recording devices, and I install them. Then I go home and I wait.

[00:33:12] Laura Hoffman: And then I hike out two months later maybe.

[00:33:14] Laura Hoffman: And I hope. That, that something didn’t get my camera.

[00:33:18] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I

[00:33:19] Laura Hoffman: hope that I caught something. Mm-hmm. I hope that I heard something. Mm-hmm. And then hours of listening days. Mm.

[00:33:26] Laura Hoffman: so what AI can do is. What we have is monitoring devices that have AI on board. Mm-hmm. And so it takes the pictures, it says whether that was that bird Mm. It sends up to the satellites um, information. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sends it back to the researcher in their office mm-hmm. for previous recordings.

[00:33:45] Laura Hoffman: It allows ’em to process all of that information in a fraction of the time. Mm-hmm. So they spend more time doing their research

[00:33:52] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah.

[00:33:52] Laura Hoffman: Instead of listening for something.

[00:33:55] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. They either spend more time doing their research or if we’re [00:34:00] still aiming towards that utopian Star Trek, they can spend more time with their families and, and well, that’s right.

[00:34:05] Jonathan Sposato: So doing, pursuing leisure, having their leisure time. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah.

[00:34:08] Laura Hoffman: Whatever that new pursuit, that curiosity, wherever that takes them, right?

[00:34:13] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. let’s even go a little bit further. What, in general, what emerging technologies are you most excited about?

[00:34:21] Laura Hoffman: Oh, there’s so many. you said it, Uhhuh. Yes, I am an animal lover.

[00:34:24] Laura Hoffman: I’m also a farmer by upbringing. I grew on a farm. I see

[00:34:28] Jonathan Sposato: Uhhuh.

[00:34:29] Laura Hoffman: riding horses with my grandfather and gardening and farming with my grandmother mm-hmm. And my family. And so that’s very

[00:34:35] Jonathan Sposato: Jeffersonian of you, by the way, to be, that go from, to be a farmer and uh, technologist, right? Yeah. Yeah. I

[00:34:41] Laura Hoffman: love the balance. Yeah. I love the balance still today. And so I was actually digging in my garden. In my little farm, which my family is like, that’s not a farm.

[00:34:50] Laura Hoffman: That’s tiny, comparatively to a real farm. But, um, and, but I was digging and I was like, in the future there will be, I will have robot assistance. And we were, [00:35:00] I was talking to my husband who was also in technology and we were talking about how. I would be able to spend more time with my family instead of weeding those other areas.

[00:35:09] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. Or something like that. I’ll have that ability to have that kind of assistant. Mm-hmm. That kind of, empowering ability to not only get information about what I might be doing mm-hmm. That day, what, I already use co-pilot mm-hmm. constantly. Mm-hmm. For things like that in my own life, I’ll just have more of that assist.

[00:35:27] Laura Hoffman: Which gives me more time to do other things. Like I said, I have to chip away at that curiosity list. Mm-hmm. Yeah, those pursuits. So it just gives me more time to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I love the, I think health is an area where AI is really good at making connections in data.

[00:35:43] Laura Hoffman: And understanding it, reasoning on that. And so health is one of those areas where I think there’s not enough. Healthcare professionals in the world. Mm-hmm. it’s not that it would be displacing anyone there, they just don’t exist. Yeah. You know, for example, like right, there’s [00:36:00] this, in the, I just was in Australia working on a project.

[00:36:03] Laura Hoffman: For the lab in the Northern Territories mm-hmm. In Australia. Mm-hmm. Um, with an indigenous in Australia. group and with a researchers in Sydney and it’s on children and ear disease.

[00:36:15] Laura Hoffman: And. with an just a phone and a simple tiny camera and ai we can help people in the field that are not healthcare professionals.

[00:36:26] Laura Hoffman: Yeah, we could allow them. They’re trusted in their community. These people are, and we could give them that device with AI and diagnose. And save children’s hearing.

[00:36:39] Jonathan Sposato: That’s super cool. It’s

[00:36:40] Laura Hoffman: the highest percent of hearing loss Yeah. Of young people. And that impacts ’em for their whole life. Yeah.

[00:36:46] Laura Hoffman: It’s irreversible. Yeah. Yeah. And so those are the kind of advancements that really excite me because it’s just enabling everyday people to do extraordinary things.

[00:36:56] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, wow, that’s super cool. It’s almost like, [00:37:00] you know, in the matrix when Neil. You could put any chip in him and, and all of a sudden he knows how to fly a helicopter.

[00:37:05] Jonathan Sposato: Right. And he knows kung fu and, but in this case, it’s saving lives. Yeah. Yeah. device’s not like you’re gonna have,

[00:37:10] Laura Hoffman: you’re never going to have those ear specialists Right. In the field. Right, so that’s never gonna happen. Mm-hmm. And so those are the kind of places where AI is really the hope of being able to solve that challenge.

[00:37:22] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. In fact, bill Gates recently made a statement that he feels like that AI will get to such a point where we may not actually need human doctors anymore. What do you think of that?

[00:37:38] Laura Hoffman: I think that there’s always a need for humans in the loop.

[00:37:42] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah.

[00:37:43] Laura Hoffman: to think that we’ll have machines that operate without us in that loop mm-hmm. I don’t think I believe that. Yeah. Because I think that humanity is always something that’s necessary right up for, in the for forefront. However, we have to give those experts, [00:38:00] those humans, more tools, better tools mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To extend themselves. Mm-hmm. Because. Like in the case of that Where there are just not enough ear specialists. Mm-hmm. That’s the case in almost anything. Yeah. That’s the case in our rural scenarios. That’s right. Yeah. That’s the case for eye specialists. Mm-hmm. In South American, Latin American and other places, because premature, babies are living longer.

[00:38:23] Laura Hoffman: Mm.

[00:38:23] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:24] Laura Hoffman: There’s something called retinopathy of prematurity. Mm. It means that premature babies, if they’re not diagnosed. Within the first very short amount of time within 24 hours mm-hmm. of being born, that they could go blind. Yeah. Completely able to be reversed. But it has to be caught very quickly.

[00:38:41] Laura Hoffman: Yeah. Short window or they’re only Yeah. It’s unrealistic mm-hmm. That a pediatric ophthalmologist will exist mm-hmm. in remote places. Yeah. Within a hour, within four hours, travel or something. Four hours, just not an option. It’s never going to happen. Mm-hmm. But AI can make that possible.

[00:38:56] Jonathan Sposato: Right.

[00:38:57] Laura Hoffman: But it’s really important for those humans [00:39:00] to be able to train and understand mm-hmm. how technology can be used.

[00:39:04] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Certainly getting a sense, I think that’s a great answer. That, that humans are always gonna be a component of the answer. Humans are fundamentally more comfortable interacting with other humans.

[00:39:15] Jonathan Sposato: And in medicine, I know that that would be the case for me is that there are some things that where I would have greater confidence. Whether right or wrong, greater confidence in an answer coming back from a human person who’s listening to me. And maybe has gone through similar issues as what I’m describing, and then can render a judgment.

[00:39:33] Jonathan Sposato: And AI can do all those things based on the. Accretion of the knowledge that it can amass. But there is something much more comfortable about a compassionate doctor nodding and giving me assurances that it’s gonna be okay. So, so, uh, that, that alone might be the reason why we will always have human doctors.

[00:39:53] Laura Hoffman: I think that’s right. And I think that’ll always be AI is a helper.

[00:39:57] Laura Hoffman: It’s never the only part of the solution. It’s a [00:40:00] part of the solution with the person Yeah. And with the human.

[00:40:02] Jonathan Sposato: Yep. So again, this year is Microsoft’s 50th anniversary. What does year 51 look like?

[00:40:12] Laura Hoffman: In really simple terms, it’s more ai, that’s for sure.

[00:40:15] Laura Hoffman: Mm-hmm. For us in the lab, and I think across the company, it’s how do we empower people to do more with ai? as the lab thinks about that, I. So the AI for Good Lab thinks about that. There are a couple areas we’re really excited about. We talked a little bit about healthcare and what we can do in healthcare to enable people to do more.

[00:40:34] Laura Hoffman: We think about in sustainability as an example, we think about biodiversity. How can we help people stem the tide of some of the biodiversity losses that we think about for example, education. How do we help people prepare? One of the things that’s super interesting that we that we’re actually enlisting experts and thought leaders around the world right now is we call it the AI economy.

[00:40:59] Laura Hoffman: [00:41:00] So for example, so we have an institute that we’ve just formed, they’re just getting going. So we’re asking thought leaders around the world to help us understand how do we make AI something. That advances us all. Not only a portion of us. And so when you look at other technologies that are in the same category of ai mm-hmm.

[00:41:22] Laura Hoffman: Like electricity mm-hmm. general purpose technologies they call them. Mm-hmm. and you think about, okay, 50 years later, a hundred years later has that impacted everyone across the planet equally? Or has it left some behind and had them be further behind.

[00:41:40] Laura Hoffman: While others advance more quickly.

[00:41:42] Laura Hoffman: And so, something we’re really excited about as a lab is I. Investing in the idea of how can AI advance everyone equally. how can we bring people with multiple backgrounds, not just technology, but how can we bring multiple people to the table to help [00:42:00] us think through how can we lift everyone through ai?

[00:42:04] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. Thank you so much, Laura. This has been such a great conversation. Truly huge thanks to Laura Hoffman for joining us and for reminding us that real innovation happens when we put people first. I know today’s conversation certainly gave me a lot to think about, and I hope it sparked a lot of great ideas for you too out there.

[00:42:27] Jonathan Sposato: Stay tuned for more stories from the people shaping Seattle’s future. Thank you, Laura.

[00:42:32] Laura Hoffman: Thank you so much.