Scott Stulen: Leading Seattle Art Museum into the Future

[00:00:00] Jonathan Sposato: Welcome back to the Seattle Magazine Podcast where we explore the incredible people and ideas shaping the culture of our world-class city. I’m thrilled to introduce today’s guest, a leader in the art world who’s bringing a fresh and dynamic energy to one of Seattle’s most revered institutions.

Scott Stulen is the new CEO of the Seattle Art Museum. He’s not just a museum director. He’s a practicing artist, a DJ, and a boundary pusher who believes that museums should be alive. Accessible and deeply connected to the communities they serve. Before arriving in Seattle, Scott led the Philbrook Museum of Art in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he redefined what a museum could be hosting everything from backyard concerts to cat video festivals, all while expanding access and engagement in powerful ways.

Today we will talk about his bold vision for the future of SAM. What brought him to the Pacific Northwest and how he plans to make the museum, not just a place to look at art, but a place to live it. Scott, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Let’s get to know you a little bit, Scott Stulen, the person you know.

I’m very curious to know more about you. You’ve worn a lot of creative hats, artist, dj, curator. Museum leader, what’s the thread that ties all of these roles together for you? 

[00:01:26] Scott Stulen: It’s a great question. I think for me it is how do I connect people to one another, and in my case, that’s using art and culture to be able to do that.

So in my artistic practice, the music I’ve done, projects that I’ve done and all my work inside of museums really have been about how do we bring people together. 

[00:01:42] Jonathan Sposato: Very good, very good. Now, now, what was your very first memory 

[00:01:46] Scott Stulen: of falling in love with art? So I went on one of those school field trips. I. In fourth grade, and this was in Minneapolis.

I was grew up in Minnesota, uh, to the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, and I remember a Rembrandt in their collection and the docents were giving a tour, and I fell in love with the story, but also the work of art. And as the group kind of moved along, I lingered behind and I was just fascinated with this Rembrandt.

And I remember leaning in closer and closer. And then finally I tripped all the alarms and almost got tackled by a security guard. But I think back to that moment is that in that moment I thought about, I want to be somebody who could do something like this. And, you know, I’m not Rembrandt, but being able to, uh, evoke that type of emotion and a work of art, I.

Also, I think back now, that’s also something where I think about the experience in a museum. I wanna make a place where that curiosity is rewarded instead of having a guard almost tackling you. So that’s, I use that story ’cause I think it often refers to a lot of the things that’s kind of, uh, the direction I’ve gone with my artistic career.

Yeah. Going forward. 

[00:02:49] Jonathan Sposato: Very good. Very good. Which kind of reminds me, I’m gonna slip this question in. Do, do you have a favorite movie? About art. 

[00:02:55] Scott Stulen: There’s a lot of art movies there. Uhhuh, I think the one that I refer refer is, is Ferris Bueller Day Off When they go to, oh yes, yes. That’s 

[00:03:00] Jonathan Sposato: my favorite movie of all time.

There we go of all 

[00:03:02] Scott Stulen: time. I love that because it’s that kind of experience and particularly kind of seeing all those works of art in that context and you know, being able to go to Chicago and actually replicate that experience yourself mm-hmm. To be able to do it. But that’s my favorite. 

[00:03:13] Jonathan Sposato: Yes. Um, that’s literally my favorite movie of all time.

And recently my family and I were able to replicate, uh, one of the scenes from when they were. At the museum and the three of them are standing silently, uh, in front of, um, now I can’t remember, was it a Van Gogh? 

[00:03:29] Scott Stulen: There’s a Seurat 

that there’s a s rah, right? That’s right. I wanted to share this around Ferris Bueller Uhhuh.

So yeah. Part of my own artistic practice, I did a whole series of paintings based on Cameron’s house and Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. That’s 

[00:03:39] Jonathan Sposato: awesome. 

[00:03:40] Scott Stulen: So what I did is that actual house is in Highland Park in Chicago. Yeah. It’s a Philip Johnson house, correct? Yeah. And they tried to sell it. Mm-hmm. And when they tried to sell it, they tried to sell it as the house in the film Uhhuh.

But it doesn’t actually present that way in real life because of the camera angles. Yeah. And how some of the things are presented. Right. So I did a whole series of paintings based on the real estate photos of the home. 

[00:03:59] Jonathan Sposato: Wow. 

[00:03:59] Scott Stulen: Versus why it is presented there. So this whole idea of like fantasy and reality Yeah.

And how things are represented through pop culture. And I love that. Layers of it. 

[00:04:06] Jonathan Sposato: So I think it’s not, not at all surprise at those of us who appreciate the visual arts are also fans of architecture and, and certain epoch defining. Works of architecture. That’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My favorite art movie must be the Thomas Crown Affair, which is great too.

Not suggesting that anyone should be stealing any art, uh, mind you, but it’s my favorite because the essential protagonist has one painting. That he loves and, and there is sort of issues around art being out there for the community to enjoy versus it being a very private experience where, you know, ultimately of course, um, uh, he, he steals the painting and then sort of puts it back and there’s all kinds of cleverness.

But what I love is the part where it’s out there in the community and he goes, he walks in every afternoon, presumably he is a very busy businessman, but he walks in every afternoon. Opens up his briefcase, takes out a sandwich, and he eats his lunch in front of this painting every day. Yeah. And so I, I think that’s a lovely thing to do.

And I could recall with fondness that when I was, um, running one of my tech startup companies, we would. Do field trips every month to SAM and we would all, as a company, just roam and just have, uh, folks be inspired during the lunch hour. I 

[00:05:26] Scott Stulen: love 

[00:05:27] Jonathan Sposato: that and I hope we can have more of that happen. Then let’s get back to, to Seattle.

What. Drew you to Seattle and to SAM specifically Scott. 

[00:05:35] Scott Stulen: So, Seattle’s been a place that I’ve always loved and we come back here numerous times to visit. I’ve come here for business and it’s a place that my wife and I had always thought that maybe we would end up. Mm-hmm. And you know, we grew up in the, in the nineties when, you know, Seattle was everything to, I remember coming here, uh, during that period of time and I think we even had a period of time where we thought maybe we’ll open a coffee shop someplace and kind of that nice.

Like with half the country. Right. But, uh, but it was a place that we always loved visiting. So when the opportunity came to potentially, you know, move here and it’s always great when you’re kind of recruited to come move to a place that you want to move to. Mm-hmm. We were just thrilled Yeah. Uh, to be able to come here.

So love the city. Love the region. I think just the proximity to art and nature and sports and food scene and music. Mm-hmm. All these things that we love. It’s all that and more. And I also like tell you, from growing up in Minnesota, the climate here is amazing. Awesome. So that’s great. So to have, you know, your temperature fluctuating between 40 degrees and 75 uhhuh during the year, the great doesn’t bother me.

I love that. And, but I really love that it’s not, you know, a hundred degrees or 20 below. Yeah. And it’s, it feels like it’s this, it feels like already, we’ve been here about nine months now, but it feels like home. 

[00:06:44] Jonathan Sposato: That is awesome to hear. I mean, here. At Seattle Magazine, we sort of, our mission statement is we believe that we, we should be telling the world what a world-class, city Seattle is, and that what happens in Seattle matters and impacts the rest of the world.

And so I’m, I’m so glad to hear that, that, you know, everyone always complains about the weather, but you know, honestly, like a lot of things in life, it’s all relative. You know, it’s, it’s on occasion you’ll lose an employee to from Southern California. Sure. And they. Move back to San Diego and you’re like, okay, I, I get it.

But then, um, hopefully for every one of those, you get many people who, uh, can also appreciate that, that the mild temperatures, the mild climate is actually really a plus and Wonderful. Um, have your impressions of Seattle changed at all or been amplified in the nine months that you’ve been 

[00:07:31] Scott Stulen: here? That’s a good question.

I think. Everything that we’ve kind of hoped here has been proven to be not only true, but I think even better. 

[00:07:38] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:38] Scott Stulen: So I think there’s so much potential here, but also just amazing things that are happening. I think it’s a really unique time to be coming into Seattle. Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:45] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:46] Scott Stulen: Because I think coming outta COVID, there’s a lot of investments that are happening.

Yeah. I’ll use the waterfront for example. Mm-hmm. And having the museum so close in proximity, so much potential there and things that we can kind of lean into. Yeah. I think seeing kind of new things popping up and a lot of new energy here. Mm-hmm. But also kind of being able to build upon the legacy that’s been built over generations here as well.

There’s a lot of resources here. Mm-hmm. There’s a lot of things I think, to be able to tap into. Mm-hmm. Um, I think there’s been things where at times where I’ve kind of been surprised that for such an innovative city there’s sometimes a little bit of risk aversion to things too. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s something that, again, that’s in pockets.

Think every city has versions of that. Yeah. But. Everybody here has been so incredibly nice. They’ve been welcoming. They’ve been really open to, I think, new ideas and very open to kinda welcoming my family and I here. Just incredibly excited to be here. 

[00:08:38] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, that’s great. In fact, my next question is really around if you could wave a magic wand over Seattle, what do you sort of wish that Seattle Lights would do more of or less of?

[00:08:50] Scott Stulen: Yeah, it’s a good question. I, you know, I think we’re in a position where getting out more to, to things, you know, coming to more events, being more present at things, I think that’s happening. Mm-hmm. And I don’t think this is unique to Seattle. I think it’s something that’s been kind of slow in a lot of places.

Again, coming outta the pandemic and some of the behaviors there. 

[00:09:07] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:07] Scott Stulen: Um, and I even in the short time I’ve been here, I’m seeing some of that even kind of improve and, you know, the magic wanding, of course there’s things we’d love to kind of lower the class of living mm-hmm. And be able to do some of those kind of bigger things, which would have a big impact.

Mm-hmm. You know, here. But, you know, I think part of it is just to kind of embrace this spirit of adventure, embrace this spirit of entrepreneurship. Mm-hmm. Be able to kind of try new things mm-hmm. And learn from it and be able to kind of continue to grow. Mm-hmm. And I am. Sensing a lot of that here.

Mm-hmm. But I think we wanna just grab this moment and be able to run with it. 

[00:09:38] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. I’ll grab it with you. I’ll run with you. Well, Tom Cruise, sprinting out. There we go. Um, what’s one thing that you believe museums should be doing right now? That 

[00:09:48] Scott Stulen: most aren’t truly embracing their community. Mm. I think a lot of museums are about themselves and are insular in a way, and somewhat islands, but are not really part of their neighborhood, part of their community, part of their region.

[00:10:01] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. 

[00:10:02] Scott Stulen: And to do that means you have to do that authentically and be able to truly reach out and make it more porous. And that’s not just your admission price. That’s not just that means. Being part of other organizations, welcoming them in, Welcoming the public at all different levels. I think the one thing that often isn’t talked about enough is that how do museums actually. Talk to their audience. How do we have hospitality in our spaces? How do we welcome people in? If you say that you wanna have kids there, but there’s no place to sit for kids, or there’s no space to go, then are you really doing that right?

Good point. thinking about price points of things in your restaurant Thinking about things, different ways that even how, what door do you come in? 

How does it present? So all these things are around the art experience. It isn’t even getting to what’s on the wall. 

[00:10:47] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:10:48] Scott Stulen: But even inside the galleries, how do you talk about an artwork where you’re giving some entry points for people that may not know all the history behind it, may not know those layers of art history, still have an entry point for that person and not only be talking at one level.

So I think a lot of museums have ignored how audiences have changed over the years and somewhat have been either defiant of it or just like dismissive of it. What we need to do is meet our audience where they are. Not where we wish our audience was. 

[00:11:16] Jonathan Sposato: Interesting. I I love that point. And, and reflexively, I of course wanna agree with it because it sounds like it, it makes so much sense.

I, I’m reflecting on the fact that I think all industries have a tendency to be in their own little bubble. Yes. Um, so whether it’s the art when museums. Or higher ed. I’m a trustee at a higher ed institution or technology or what have you, or the legal profession. Every industry has its own little bubble and we tend to be siloed talking to ourselves.

We hire people who talk like us and look like us and think like us, and so therefore we can lose sight, especially if we’re trying to scale across to, to broader segments of the community. We lose sight of how to speak to the. Broader groups. And so, uh, what you say is, is, is so incredibly important to, to get out of the bubble and reach more folks.

How do you see the Seattle Art Museum evolving under your leadership? What’s your dream headline about SAM in five years? My dream 

[00:12:11] Scott Stulen: headline is that we are Seattle’s Museum. That we are a place for everybody in our community to find something of importance to them that we’re part of people’s daily lives.

Mm-hmm. And we’re a place that most people are glad that there’s a museum that’s in their community, but I want a place that people are actually going 

[00:12:31] Jonathan Sposato: mm-hmm. 

[00:12:31] Scott Stulen: And using it. Mm-hmm. Not just happy that it exists, but a place that’s part of their lives. 

[00:12:35] Jonathan Sposato: Hmm. 

[00:12:36] Scott Stulen: So my headline would be is I want the Seattle Art Museum to be part of people’s Daily lives.

[00:12:40] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. Like a place to. Have lunch. Exactly. Uh, a place to, to visit when you have a break. Uh, and you wanna just get outta the office and sort of change your head 

[00:12:50] Scott Stulen: space for a bit. 

[00:12:51] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, 

[00:12:52] Scott Stulen: exactly. And it can function for different things for different people on even different days. So instead of coming once a year to the one big show that you’re coming to have lunch one day, another day you come on, on a break just to kind of clear your head.

Mm-hmm. Another day coming for your family for a different type of experience, or coming to a film or a concert or whatever it might be. Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:10] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:13:10] Scott Stulen: But I think finding some days you want something that challenges you. Other days you wanna maybe just get completely away from what’s happening in the world.

Yeah. And be able to escape for a while. And museums can be one of those places where that can actually happen. And then how do we make kind of the environment around that be a place conducive to want to come and hang out and be able to pop in and do that. Yeah. And not feel like you’re coming in and not having to leave right away.

[00:13:31] Jonathan Sposato: Right, right, right. You know what, I love that. Because selfishly I would love to see it as a place that is more of an integrated part of my week. You know, I have a secret, which is that I actually really love museums. There’s something about that. It’s a break from the chaos. I always end up leaving sort of endorphin filled.

At the same time, at peace, we are physical beings. Uh, we respond to things viscerally, to signals and input. And there is something about a beautiful space, a beautiful architectural space filled with beautiful objects, um, that is quiet, that is, uh, very sooth some, and I think we need more of that in our lives.

Yeah, I’m all for that. What surprises do you think are hidden? In SAM that even frequent visitors might not know about? 

[00:14:24] Scott Stulen: I think there’s a lot of aspects of the collection uhhuh, that people have not maybe explored or have changed. I think something that people that aren’t a part of museums all the time don’t realize, we show about 3 to 4% of the collection.

[00:14:36] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. Oh 

[00:14:37] Scott Stulen: wow. So there’s a very small percentage that’s out and we’re constantly changing things that are out for a variety of reasons to show more work. There’s a lot of works that have light sensitivity, so they can only be out a certain period of time and need to rotate. Yeah. We are gonna be showing a lot more of that collection.

And be able to highlight more of it. Mm-hmm. I want you to be able to come and see something new every time that you come to the museum and visit your old friends that are there too. How do you have that balance? 

[00:15:01] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:15:02] Scott Stulen: So there’s a lot of different aspects of that that, you know, I wanna be able to invite that exploration.

Mm-hmm. And there’s new stories to tell too. Mm-hmm. So how do we kinda layer other stories? And so much about art is about storytelling. 

[00:15:13] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:15:13] Scott Stulen: And creating connection. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It isn’t always about the work that you’re super familiar. I know that artist. Yeah. Sometimes it’s about something that you never knew about a story or a history or connection between communities that we can do through that collection.

Wow. 

[00:15:27] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. That, that’s amazing. I had no idea that the percentage that’s, um, physically installed at the moment is only such a small single digit percentage. Yeah. I mean, the quick math is if you. Rotated at every two weeks, the entire museum, which would be probably unrealistic and super labor intensive, it would take you two years to go through a hundred percent.

So that’s really rather exciting because of the amount of inventory and the amount of stories that you can tell, the point about light. Sensitivity, if we can just geek out on that for a second. ’cause I know that there’s a lot of our listeners who are art collectors and have art. Yeah. I don’t remember that.

There are very many rooms other than common spaces and things like that where there are a lot of exterior windows. So does one have to worry about light sensitivity? Even with artificial light, 

[00:16:11] Scott Stulen: you do so, but it’s at varying levels. So it depends on. We could go right on the rabbit hole here, Uhhuh, but it depends on the actual direct light that’s on it.

It is different LED light versus direct sunlight. Mm. If you have UV filters on windows, for example, that does reduce some of it. Mm-hmm. But works on paper. Mm. And photographs. Mm-hmm. In particular, very light sensitive. 

[00:16:31] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:16:32] Scott Stulen: So. In people’s homes. You may not be following, of course the museum no rules that we do.

But the general rule is if we have a work of art up for six months, it rests for five years. So there’s this kind of, and that’s for works on paper now. There’s different things vary a lot. Some things are highly sensitive, uhhuh, and that’s even. Longer uhhuh. Some things are and aren’t quite as sensitive and can be a little bit shorter, but paintings, uhhuh, so oil paintings, acrylic paintings, those are fine.

Oh, and so most sculptures, depending on the materials are fine. Ceramics, of course, very fine. So it really depends on the material. So light sensitivity mostly applies to, in broad terms. Two works on paper. Yeah. 

[00:17:14] Jonathan Sposato: Okay. Thank you for that. I, I was concerned that I needed to be resting. Some paintings at your paintings are good.

Uh, yeah. I, I, boy, I hope so because I have grossly violated the, uh, uh, what is it, every six months and five years. Yeah. But if you 

[00:17:27] Scott Stulen: have, you also though, if you go, if you have somebody framing your work. They’re likely putting UV glass and a lot of like, you know, acid free papers and stuff with it. Yeah. So they’re really thinking about it being up more often.

[00:17:36] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. If you have 

[00:17:37] Scott Stulen: it in your home. 

[00:17:38] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. So 

[00:17:38] Scott Stulen: it’s, it’s, it’s not quite a full apples to apples. Okay. But I would say if you’ve got a print that you really like, I would not put in direct sunlight. Yeah. Right, 

[00:17:45] Jonathan Sposato: right. No, I, I am, I don’t trust uv. Glass. That’s the, I’m paranoid. And so I do, I do have, you know, things kind of turned away, but I do have one painting in particular, I who, uh, uh, well, that my wife and I argue about, I’ll put it that way.

Sure. Um, um, she, she, she points that, uh, to it as a, an example of, okay, from now on, we both have to agree. Before it comes in the house. And um, but that one I have in my den and it’s sort of like my private thing that I enjoy by myself, but there’s no UV glass or anything. And, and, um, I, I worry about that one.

But good to know that, that an oil painting is probably gonna be okay. Yeah. Good. We good? Yeah. Okay. That’s the end of our geeking out for a second there. Uh, about that. Alright. You’ve built a really amazing reputation, Scott, for making art spaces more inclusive, fun, and accessible. So what’s one example of a kind of an unexpected idea that turned out to be pretty successful?

[00:18:40] Scott Stulen: Well, the one that I’m known for, if anybody Googles me, the cat video thing will come up. That’s right. So it’s kind of the one Yeah, I want you to talk about that. Yeah. So the I, the simple idea there, this is at the Walker Arts Center in Minneapolis, so. Katie Hill, who’s one of my colleagues there. At the time we had this idea, what if we took YouTube videos and turned it into more of a communal thing instead of watching on your phone alone or sending it to somebody, that we would do it all together.

Yeah. Awesome. And this is, uh, 2012 and we thought cat videos was a great subject matter to do that, so we kind of launched this first internet CAT video festival. Mm-hmm. As just a blog post that went out and it went viral in about four hours. Um, Gawker picked it up and it went, and it was kind of this delicious thing of having high art museum with mm-hmm.

You know, low culture. I love it. Cat videos together. So we weren’t sure anybody would actually show up to this thing. And I. Lo and behold, when we did it, 13,000 people came. Mm-hmm. To the first event. It was the front of the art section, New York Times. Mm-hmm. We had major profiles around it, and it became, now it’s been the 13 years now and it still exists.

Mm-hmm. It’s still out there as an event, but when I talk about it, it like, it wasn’t about cat videos directly, it was about watching catios together. Mm-hmm. That was the key is that you found something where there’s a community that did not have a place to gather and you created a, a reason and a place to gather.

[00:19:54] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:55] Scott Stulen: And we did it through CAT videos. Now, the connection to the museum, we were actually able to track from that. Mm-hmm. That 70% of the people that came had never been to the museum before. 

[00:20:05] Jonathan Sposato: Wow. 

[00:20:05] Scott Stulen: And the CAT Video Festival gave them purpose to come. 

[00:20:08] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. And 

[00:20:09] Scott Stulen: then we tracked at a higher percentage of that group came back.

[00:20:12] Jonathan Sposato: That’s amazing. In any 

[00:20:13] Scott Stulen: other group we had. Yeah. ’cause again, suddenly down the museum was on their radar. It had purpose, it did something positive. Mm-hmm. And they wanted to find out more. Mm-hmm. So. That, and many other things I’ve done over the course of my career have been how do we create an access point for somebody maybe that would have never tried or maybe never would without creating this kind of unique moment.

Mm-hmm. And then it’s about how do you entice more after that? That’s 

[00:20:39] Jonathan Sposato: amazing. You’ve really widened the, uh, top of the funnel, so to speak. That’s right. And then, and then, and then the conversion to them being a little more sticky and they come back and that’s a great, great example of something that turned out to be very successful.

That’s super cool. Now, Scott, as you know. Seattle’s art scene is really, really quite diverse. How do you plan to build bridges between the Seattle Art Museum and 

[00:21:02] Scott Stulen: local artists and communities? Yeah, and I’m, you know, as an artist myself, I think part of it is knowing kind of what those needs are from artists here.

So we plan on rolling out a bunch of different events. Um, exhibitions, but also ways that we’re just connecting with community. I’m working on an artist membership that will create a different membership mm-hmm. Uh, tier for artists here. Mm-hmm. Different specialized events that I know that, like whether it’s artist talks or other types of activities we can have that are really targeted at the arts community and people that work.

In the arts community here. And the other thing is like having myself and others show up. Mm-hmm. Being at other art events, showing up at openings, coming to various things out in the community. Mm-hmm. And being present. I think that’s part of it, where the museum is kind of out in the community and then how we create imitation for artists to come and use the museum as a space to kinda learn and gather and hang out and, and be part of things.

So it’s how that environment works both ways. Mm-hmm. Uh, one of the things I did. When I was in Minneapolis is we had a drawing club on Thursday nights. We had art artists to come and sit and have a drink and draw together with no intended purpose, outcome of any of that. But the idea is the museum being a place of gathering for the arts community.

And that’s the foundation I’m gonna be building here at Sam. So we become that. That’s very cool, Scott. 

[00:22:17] Jonathan Sposato: And then on the other end of it, if SAM could host any event, no budget limits, no red tape of any kind. No, no constraints. What would you do? I would bring the Louvre of collection 

[00:22:29] Scott Stulen: here so we could see it.

That’d be one. Yeah. Awesome. I think some of those kind of you, those dream type scenarios, Uhhuh, I’m also really interested in doing things that are way outside the box though too. How could you do something where we cross over fashion and design and art into show that maybe hasn’t been done before too?

Mm-hmm. So thinking about how do you really think about expanding the definition of art? Mm-hmm. To bringing things together. There as well. And I think if you really had that full palette where you could bring in, whether it’s like, you know, sneaker culture with cars, with fashion design, with, with you know, art.

[00:23:02] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:03] Scott Stulen: All into one kind of, you know, type of show. I think that could be pretty interesting too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What’s a work of art that makes you laugh? Or Sparks Joy. Yeah. There’s a piece that I love. There’s an Icelandic artist that has a piece that currently is up at sfm, om a, called the Visitors. And it’s, it’s this video piece, Uhhuh, and it’s set in a room where there’s like 12 channels, uh, video piece of a music performance.

Mm. So each musician’s in a different room of the house. Mm. They all come together and play these parts of it, and eventually they all kind of start and song and then start moving into outside. So they move from each of the screens out into one of the screens, then out walking out into the landscape.

Fantastic. It’s it’s funny. It’s beautiful and it’s one of those pieces where you can kind of see it over and over again and see something new in it. Yeah. 

[00:23:51] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:23:51] Scott Stulen: And I just saw it recently and it’s one of those things that I love that work, but it kind of sparks that kind of feeling of joy, you know, with it.

And I, you know, there’s a lot of works I love for their sense of humor. Mm-hmm. You know, too. And I think that’s why I love, you know, recently I was looking at some of, to Shaki Mary’s work, for example. Mm-hmm. Which I love the playfulness of that as an example too. Yeah, 

[00:24:10] Jonathan Sposato: yeah, yeah. I could look at those works all day.

If you could have lunch with any artist, living or dead. Who would it be? And by the way, what would you order? 

[00:24:21] Scott Stulen: Uh, Garrett Richter, who’s ah, German painter, Uhhuh, and as a painter is somebody I’ve long admired Uhhuh, you know, his work. And I, I think also just kind of how the variety of work that he’s had over the years, and he’s still living in his nineties now, but I, wow.

With Gerhard, I would say when we’re in Germany, we should be at a beer hall and probably have a, have a, a pin and maybe a, a pretzel or something. 

[00:24:42] Jonathan Sposato: Right. Very good. That, that’d be very appropriate. Um, yeah. One of my favorite painters is also, uh, of German descent, um, William Rael. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. An impressionist kind of considered a, an American.

Impressionist because he, he immigrated, uh, to California after the turn a century, and I’d love to have lunch with him because I would like to know the stories behind some of his works. Absolutely. Because some of them are really. They’re just so intriguing. Uh, some of the imagery, I’m like, what, what’s happening there?

And what, there’s a big question mark feels like that you’re, that it’s leaving in everyone’s mind. Uh, who views it? Pick it up on this theme that, you know, the museum is a place that maybe a lot of us could visit every day instead of just on, on occasion. The SAM Cafe. I love it there. Do you have a favorite, underrated snack from the SAM Cafe or one that you wish they would add?

[00:25:35] Scott Stulen: I get in a rut ’cause I go down there a lot. Uhhuh having a lot of meetings 

[00:25:38] Jonathan Sposato: and I And do they give you bigger portions by way? They don’t, they don’t. They should, but no, they don’t. 

[00:25:42] Scott Stulen: Um, I will say this, we just, we just, uh, tested some things we’re gonna be rolling out at the, um, sculpture park. 

[00:25:48] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:49] Scott Stulen: And so we’re having a new line of kind of, uh, hotdog and sausages and a Seattle dog and some things that are gonna be out there.

So I’ve been trying to kind of push some things that are a little bit more at all price points. But again, the Market Cafe has a lot of really good seafood there. So lobster rolls great, and there’s mm-hmm. There’s a lot of different options. Speaking of that, I mean, what you’re gonna be seeing is not only the cafe there, but all that space around it.

Over the coming months, we’re gonna be adding new seating. We’re gonna be adding. Art and all those spaces. Wow. All the, the, both the south entrance, the north entrance are open, new installations are coming in, cool places to hang out. And then we’re gonna even have seating out front by Hammerman that’s gonna spill out onto the street.

Mm-hmm. And then lighting up all that exterior up the University Avenue steps. Mm-hmm. So all of those connection points between the waterfront and SAM are gonna be greatly enhanced here very soon. That’s great. 

[00:26:39] Jonathan Sposato: I love that. Deeply curious to know your perspective on given who you are and, and the fact that you’re an artist yourself and at the same time you, you seem to be very astute about emerging trends, emerging technologies.

What’s your take, Scott? On the intersection of technology and art, and especially AI generated art? Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:00] Scott Stulen: I think AI is a tool like any other tool. It’s no different than Photoshop coming around. It’s no different than the camera coming around. It’s going to change things for sure, but I think we have some choice in how we change, in how we.

Use that technology. I don’t think ignoring it is a option for things. So it’s really thinking about how can you integrate that. And from the AI end, I’m looking and I, I use it every day. I use aspects of it because it allows me to do other things and not, and have other tasks be able to be dedicated to having the AI to assist it.

So, you know, often when this question comes up, I think back to like, what would you know Michelangelo have done if he had power tools? He would’ve used them. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. He would, and he would’ve used all these tools that are available to him and maybe created something even more spectacular.

Mm-hmm. So I think it shouldn’t be something we put limitations on ourself. Mm-hmm. Now, I think there’s also, AI raised a whole lot of questions about authenticity and like, and what’s actually being human created and what’s not, and kind of those lines. And I think we’re all gonna have to navigate that a bit together.

But artists always find a way. Mm-hmm. They find a way to be able to spin it in a, in a direction that nobody’s seen before. 

[00:28:08] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:09] Scott Stulen: And to be able to use these tools. So I, I feel that there’s a lot of things that I know we need to be wary of, but there’s a lot of excitement in it as well. And then from, just from a pure functional side, if we can use those tools in the business of running a museum mm-hmm.

What does it free us up to do elsewhere? Mm-hmm. Can we do more community engagement? Can we do more things with our audience? Can we do more things with the art we show? Because we’re able to reallocate some of those, that labor. 

[00:28:36] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Excellent. And I, and I couldn’t agree more. So this is the last of my sort of quote unquote real questions.

Sure. And then we’ll do a few fun ones. Um, what does a. Good day at the museum 

[00:28:49] Scott Stulen: look like for you? A good day at the museum is when it’s full of people, 

[00:28:52] Jonathan Sposato: uhhuh 

[00:28:53] Scott Stulen: and I love walking in and seeing school tours coming in and lining up, hearing kids laughing and all that, energy in the space, walking through galleries and seeing.

All different, walks of life on different people there and people enjoying and having different types of experiences. So whether somebody’s there for a film, somebody’s there to have lunch, people are in the galleries, but the biggest thing is that it’s full and alive. Mm, very nice. Very nice.

[00:29:19] Jonathan Sposato: Scott, let’s talk about what’s ahead. What things are upcoming at the museum that you’re most excited about? 

[00:29:25] Scott Stulen: We still have the Highway Away show that’s running through the end of the summer. Yeah. Amazing. Which, which I really recommend everybody coming out and seeing. Of course. Spectacular. Thank you. And then we have a show completely different that’s gonna be in the fall called Farm to Table.

So this is a French impressionist show, has a lot of the big names you’d expect in it, but it’s around food, food culture, uhhuh, and that’ll be opening up in October, this fall. 

[00:29:45] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:45] Scott Stulen: And then following that, we have a show that’s on Pacific Northwest Modernism, but that also is gonna have a lot of other artists inside of that show.

Again, a lot of names, people were recognized. Mm-hmm. But also a lot of artists that are very well known in Pacific Northwest. 

[00:29:57] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. Uh, so really 

[00:29:58] Scott Stulen: thinking about kind of a variety of different exhibitions there. And then we have the next version of the Calder Show that we have coming up too with Oh, wonderful.

With Tara Donovan. Right. This contemporary artist responding to that work. So that’s happening here. And then we have a show that’ll be out at the Asian Art Museum with Aga who has these, basically, these, these, uh, light boxes that have a single light source, that have shadow through the entire space. Wow.

So think about like Islamic patterning. All through different shadows throughout all the spaces as an environment. That’s gonna be a must see. That’ll open up this fall. Yeah. Out there. And then we have a bunch of surprises for the Olympic sculpture part coming as well, including the iWay way. Heads will be coming out there this fall.

So we’ll have those, the Zodiac heads installed. Yeah. But then we’re working on some projects around World Cup that’ll be out at the site. 

[00:30:42] Jonathan Sposato: Fantastic. 

[00:30:43] Scott Stulen: There. So a lot of different reasons to come out to the museum and. Of course, a whole layer of programming and just making the space be super fun and inviting.

Mm-hmm. And starting more film programming up again. Mm-hmm. Nice. Anyway, lots of different reasons to come. That’s great. Okay. Lightning round. Quick answers. Favorite Seattle Coffee Shop? I, I feel like there’s, this is like, I need to learn more, but I go to, uh, the Fonte coffee shop. Oh. First a lot because it’s by the museum.

It’s beautiful. It’s good. Yeah. 

[00:31:12] Jonathan Sposato: It’s, it’s a great coffee. And, and Paul and Christina Odom are good friends and, and they’ve done a fantastic job. Um. Last great book that you’ve read. 

[00:31:20] Scott Stulen: I’m gonna forget the title of Anelle, but Chris Hayes book, the SN BBC Writer Uhhuh. Yeah. Is written. Wrote this book rather basically the attention culture.

Mm-hmm. That I think was really interesting and something that obviously we’re dealing with at the museum. 

[00:31:30] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:31] Scott Stulen: Very good. 

[00:31:32] Jonathan Sposato: Um, most unexpected place you find artistic inspiration. The little 

[00:31:37] Scott Stulen: pocket beach that is off of the Olympic sculpture park that we have. 

[00:31:41] Jonathan Sposato: Yes. 

[00:31:42] Scott Stulen: And I love that little spot, and particularly on low tide to be able to go out there and, and you kind of see something new each and every time, but yeah.

Yeah. Very nice. Very nice. 

[00:31:51] Jonathan Sposato: One word you hope people use to describe SAM from now on. Welcoming. I love it. That’s a wrap on today’s conversation with Scott Stulen, the new CEO of the Seattle Art Museum. I don’t know about you, but I’m feeling energized by his vision. A reminder that art isn’t just something we observe from a distance, but something that we live with.

I. Interact with and build community around, and we can do it every single day, whether it’s re-imagining what a museum can be making room for joy and surprise, or deepening Sam’s roots in Seattle’s vibrant cultural landscape. Scott is clearly here, not just to lead, but to also listen, connect, and inspire.

If this conversation sparked your curiosity, I encourage you to pay a visit to the Seattle Art Museum. Who knows? Your next favorite moment in a city might just happen there. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please share it. Leave us a review and follow us for more conversations with the people shaping Seattle’s future.

Until next time, stay curious and keep exploring.

A special thank you to the entire Seattle Magazine staff and to podcast producer Nick Patri. Until next time, let’s keep celebrating Seattle.