Bruce Harrell: The Man Behind The Mayor

[00:00:00] Jonathan Sposato: Today on a Seattle Magazine podcast, we’re joined by someone who hardly needs an introduction into city, but who we hope to get to know in a different way. Mayor Bruce Harrell has led Seattle through an extraordinary period of change and challenge, but beyond the headlines, beyond City Hall. Bruce Harrell is also a son of Seattle, a family man, and a neighbor with a personal story that’s deeply woven into the fabric of this community.

[00:00:29] Our conversation today is less about policy and politics. We may get into some of that, but it’s really more about the person, what shaped him, what he loves about Seattle, what he does when he’s not at work, and what keeps him grounded as he shoulders the responsibilities of being mayor. We wanna know who is Bruce Harrell, the man, not just the office holder.

[00:00:52] So let’s start there. Mayor Harrell, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate seeing you. 

[00:00:58] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I’m really excited to be here as well. [00:01:00] I hope to be a good interviewee. Oh, usually I get like 20 seconds to answer a question, so gimme more than 20 seconds. I hope we’ll be okay. You, you will 

[00:01:09] Jonathan Sposato: have a lot more than 20 seconds, my friend.

[00:01:11] So, um, really. I’m so pleased to see you here and, uh, I really wanna get to know you and have our listeners get to know you as a person. Um, I, I’ve been really looking forward to this for a long time, so thank you. Let’s kind of get into some of your early roots and, and personal background. You’ve often spoken about growing up in Seattle.

[00:01:32] What’s one memory from your childhood here that still feels vivid to you? 

[00:01:37] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Well, one memory is I went to a school called TT Minor, which is in the central district. And again, this is, you know, in the sixties. And that, I just remember this is the height of, you know, the civil rights era. Mm-hmm. And race tensions were high.

[00:01:51] Hmm. And because I’m biracial and I had a, you know, of course a Japanese mother and a black father. 

[00:01:59] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:59] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I [00:02:00] wasn’t sure where I fit in on this discussion. Mm-hmm. When I turned on the TV and one incident occurred, a very well intended white teacher that I had, who I probably thought was seven years old, he probably is in his twenties.

[00:02:12] Mm-hmm. He divided a classroom up into three categories. We didn’t have a lot of people that identified as Latino back then. Mm-hmm. So they were the, uh, the blacks, the whites, and the Asians. Mm. And, you know, being in the fifth grade, I wasn’t sure which group to go to. Mm-hmm. And so I just asked the teacher, uh, where should I sit?

[00:02:30] And he looked at me and said, well, you just sit out on this one. And Huh. Put, put a chair on the side. And they were in sort of a circular group, and I wanted to just cry, cry, cry. 

[00:02:46] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. 

[00:02:46] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And I felt really, really small. Mm-hmm. And just the rest of the day, I couldn’t shake that. Mm. And I know I’m in a powerful position and people see me now as a former.

[00:02:56] Football player. Mm-hmm. You know, sort of macho kind of person. Mm-hmm. [00:03:00] From some of the other experiences that I’ve had. But I just do remember sitting out and wondering where my place was on earth because I wanted to play in the game as well. Mm-hmm. And what the teacher ended up doing was trying to teach us how to look at life as fifth graders in another perspective.

[00:03:16] Mm-hmm. And that’s why he divided everyone into the groups. Well intended, of course. Mm-hmm. But that one stung. 

[00:03:22] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:23] Mayor Bruce Harrell: You know, I get introduced all the time as the first mayor of Asian descent. Mm-hmm. Or the second black mayor after Norm Rice. Mm-hmm. Or the first biracial mayor. And I have to tell you, every time I’m introduced that way, I smile, but my stomach gets tight because it’s still.

[00:03:41] Triggers this notion of being identified by race. Right. And I never knew that issue. And so I don’t, generally, I try to identify someone as race. That’s not something you typically do. I don’t think they prefer to Mayor McGinn, for example, as the 50 whatever, 53rd, 54th white mayor. Right. I mean, it’s [00:04:00] just not a typical introduction.

[00:04:01] Yeah. I know people are well intended by identifying and we should be proud that this city elected me as mayor getting past. My racial identity. Mm-hmm. I’m proud of the city for that. Mm-hmm. But they don’t know that it triggers this little insecurity in me. Yeah. It is like, well man, here once a you, I’m in my sixties and I’m getting identified by my race.

[00:04:20] And, and, and that’s been a personal challenge for me. And that’s why I just, um, I try to really look at the commonality that we all have in a room. Mm-hmm. Because I just don’t just go right to the race mm-hmm. Issue right away. Yeah. Yeah. Uncomfortable with that. 

[00:04:33] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. No, I, I actually really appreciate. You candor and sharing that 

[00:04:37] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I have fun with it.

[00:04:38] Yeah. For example, you know my mother being of Japanese descent, she could readily tell Japanese from Chinese, from Filipino, from Korean. Is she right though? My Chinese American mother was always wrong. She was always right. She was always right. Always right. I will not describe on air how she would say the difference.

[00:04:58] Jonathan Sposato: I know what you mean. I wouldn’t [00:05:00] describe how my mother did that either, but she, but at least your mother was always 

[00:05:04] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Right. Right, right, right. And so I will ask people sometimes their ethnic background, how do they identify? Because right now I think the highest, uh, demographic are people of mixed heritage.

[00:05:13] Yeah. So it’s a beautiful thing and I always tell people that identify as white. I said, you know, so that’s just a color, right? Mm-hmm. You know where your. Cultural roots. Mm-hmm. Tell me a little bit more about your family and then the, the discussion really gets rich. ’cause a lot of them, for example, in Ballad Rule, are very proud of their Scandinavian roots.

[00:05:28] Mm-hmm. And we’ll just 

[00:05:29] Jonathan Sposato: hear about that. 

[00:05:29] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Yeah. Right. So it’s always a fun discussion as well. 

[00:05:32] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Right, right. No, I appreciate you sharing that. Which leads to my next question about being of mixed heritage and being in a multicultural household. So with the African American father and a Japanese American mother, multicultural upbringing, how did that shape your worldview?

[00:05:50] And as a kid and later as a leader, 

[00:05:54] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I, I think what it did for me at least, is I tried to find heroes in almost [00:06:00] every race. Uh, there weren’t a lot of biracial people there that were stars either on TV or in sports. I mean, none. I mean, and I don’t mean this in a derogatory way, but like Bonanza had Hop Sing on there, right?

[00:06:13] Mm-hmm. He was an Asian guy on tv. Mm-hmm. And he’s in a very domestic way. Then Kung Fu was a mm-hmm. Favorite show of mine, but that was played by a white guy, David Carine. David Carine, right? Yeah. 

[00:06:22] Jonathan Sposato: Painful. 

[00:06:23] Mayor Bruce Harrell: So then comes along Bruce Lee. And I said, oh man. And so, and, 

[00:06:28] Jonathan Sposato: and the brother died. Just 

[00:06:29] Mayor Bruce Harrell: my luck. His name is Bruce Uhhuh.

[00:06:31] Yeah. And so I must have, I went all in on the Bruce Lee thing. Oh, right. But then I looked at other athletes and I realized that from an athletic standpoint, I could be as great as I wanted to be with the tools that I have. And I wasn’t particularly big, I was A-A-M-V-P in three sports in high school.

[00:06:46] Mm-hmm. I mean, I just worked out a lot. 

[00:06:48] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:49] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Um, and so I tried to find heroes where I could, and then. Like the Kennedy Brothers, JFK, and Robert FK. Mm-hmm. Senior. Let’s make that very clear. Yes. Let’s make that clear, crystal clear. I [00:07:00] started looking at the types of politicians that I just liked, what they were doing.

[00:07:03] I looked at Martin Luther King. Mm-hmm. I looked at Malcolm X, and so I started seeing different heroes of all races and backgrounds. Mm-hmm. And that’s what I sort of gravitated. To as a young man looking for at that point, male leaders mm-hmm. To see who I could be. ’cause again, my mom and dad did not go to college.

[00:07:20] Mm. Um, they had, uh, they were just really, really good people and they’re very empowering people. Mm-hmm. Um, they, they, they made sure I as a voracious reader and grew up in a church mm-hmm. And tried to live a good life. But I think when you stick out of a crowd, and it, it also made me very sensitive to bullies.

[00:07:36] Mm-hmm. Because I was teased a lot. Mm-hmm. I mean, some of these kids were not. Nice. Yeah. And so whenever I’d see anyone that was different mm-hmm. Um, I wouldn’t allow anyone to bully someone around me. Yeah. Um, that was, that would trigger me. Yeah. Yeah. I saw someone bullied because they were, um, we wouldn’t call ’em L-G-B-T-Q, then I just, they’d call him other names, but I saw someone picked on like that.

[00:07:56] And there were, there was another kid, I remember his name was Kelly. He was half black and [00:08:00] half white. Mm-hmm. And he looked more white than black, but I knew his father. And he wasn’t as tough as I was, quite frankly, and he hung around me all the time because people would bully him and mm-hmm. Uh, you, you wouldn’t bully Kelly if you were around me.

[00:08:12] So I always Yeah. 

[00:08:13] Jonathan Sposato: Hated 

[00:08:13] Mayor Bruce Harrell: bullies. 

[00:08:14] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Right on. Yeah. No, I really appreciate that, and I can relate to that. I was a like student body president and I was. Kind, you know, popular guy or whatever in high school and I, I actually looked out for, it triggered me too if there was somebody getting picked on and I would try to always, to the best of my ability, stand up for them.

[00:08:30] I think those experiences are, they come from a place of empathy. Mm-hmm. Right. When you are kind of, maybe very early on in elementary school, I got picked on a lot and, you know, people would pick fights and try to like, hey. Spto do some kung fu and they would try to fight with me. And, and, uh, yeah, thank, thank goodness for Bruce Lee, that kind of, you know, all I had to do was kind of mm-hmm.

[00:08:50] You know, make a little movement and they’d back off. So, uh, but coming from that place of empathy, you know, you know the pain and if you’re in a position to protect others, [00:09:00] you, you do. And I think that that does seem like it’s a tenant or a hallmark of your leadership. 

[00:09:07] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Well, I appreciate that. Um, again, the reason I appreciate this interview is I know how I am perceived.

[00:09:13] Um mm. There are people that will look at me on camera Mm. And it’s my natural expression. Mm-hmm. And they’ll say, man, you’re mean mugging everyone there. And I’m just looking and trying and I’m looking intently and sometimes often misunderstood that I come across as a tough person. Right. And I have to be to do this job.

[00:09:29] Yeah. Right. 

[00:09:30] Jonathan Sposato: Oh yeah. 

[00:09:30] Mayor Bruce Harrell: But they don’t see the vulnerability. I mean, I if you know, Deborah Juarez, council member Juarez commented one time that she had never seen a council member cry on the dies before. Mm-hmm. And I lost it. I’ve lost it a few times. I actually cried in city hall during a press conference when we were talking about the war on drugs.

[00:09:48] Mm-hmm. And not particularly proud of that. But you know, I, I’m authentic. Mm-hmm. And so I’ve cried a few times in City Hall over the years, and those are memories that I would not trade for any [00:10:00] memory. Mm-hmm. Because I draw strength from it. But more importantly, I think I draw compassion and love from it.

[00:10:05] I, and, and the story I told in City Hall during the war on drugs was, I remember watching people get handcuffed just for weed, just having marijuana. 

[00:10:14] Jonathan Sposato: Hmm. And folks 

[00:10:15] Mayor Bruce Harrell: coming out years later for what now? It wouldn’t even be a crime. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so when I hear, uh, discussions about drug use and opioid use in Fentanyl, they don’t realize, you know, I lived through a, an era where my friends are getting carted away for years just for smoking a joint.

[00:10:32] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I, I do recall that I’ve known you for years now before you were mayor and when you were, uh, on the city council, when you were actually president of the city council and how authentic you always were. And I think I was doing something with the city, with the, with the mayor at the time, uh, with Jenny Durkin.

[00:10:52] And you were always really great with advice and feedback and candor, and always made yourself available to, I remember we having, you [00:11:00] know, nice lunches a few times, getting to know each other, and I think. It, you’ve always been you. So to your point about like sometimes maybe people wondering if you’re presenting a tough, you know, face publicly, it’s too bad that sometimes.

[00:11:13] People can be so superficial, but we know that you’re, you’re really a, a rather compassionate, I know for a fact that you, you are very empathetic and, um, care about other people. So wanted to lift that up. So, Bruce, growing up, what was the situation like? You know, economically, were you guys middle class, rich, poor?

[00:11:31] What was it like? Oh, we were loaded, man. 

[00:11:34] Mayor Bruce Harrell: We were, no, my, my, we weren’t rich by any stretch, but I would not call us poor. I see. My mother worked, for example, for the fax newspaper. I see. She was a secretary at the YMCA. Mm-hmm. And then she finally got a job at the city of Seattle and she became a librarian and had a good career at the city of Seattle, but not.

[00:11:53] Rich by any stretch of the imagination. And my dad was a construction lineman for City Light. Mm-hmm. But he was in a [00:12:00] Korean War. Mm-hmm. And he came out after graduating from Garfield, and they met, they knew each other in high school. Mm-hmm. They started dating in high school, and they were a young couple that got married and they bought their house, first house for $6,000 in the Central district.

[00:12:12] So they weren’t poor, they were just the working middle class folks. Mm-hmm. You know, I tell people all the time. I was very privileged as a child in the sense that my mom and dad were very, very loving, very supportive. They were together their whole life. Uh, they didn’t live long enough to see me become mayor.

[00:12:29] Mm-hmm. But, um, but I. I had the best parents on Earth, and I think I, it would always be my dream that every child could say that about their parents. Mm-hmm. But I know so many times they can’t say that. Mm-hmm. So that was my privilege to have a, a mom and a dad that, uh, believed in me so much. 

[00:12:45] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:45] That’s great. So I’m not at all surprised by this, given your, your physical stature, but you, you were a standout football player at the UDub. What did being part of a team teach you about leadership and humility? I, [00:13:00] and by the way, I love kind of scholar athletes, right? And be, I love people who are good at multiple things.

[00:13:05] And so this is a part of you that, that I’m deeply curious about. So what, yeah. Would it being a part of a team teach you? 

[00:13:11] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Yeah, I would say that the first thing is I’ve never joined a team athletically or an organization and say, okay, I’m gonna be the leader. You know, let’s, mm-hmm. Let me lead. Mm-hmm. I don’t even care about that.

[00:13:24] Uh, what I care about is, so what are we trying to do together? And I will just outwork everyone. Mm-hmm. I mean, I’ll just say, okay, this is fun. As soon as someone says, let’s do something, say, okay, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. Oh, c, can someone help me with this? Invariably I may become in a position of leadership.

[00:13:42] Mm-hmm. But it’s never because I say, Hey, I want to take this over. I’m not that narcissistic or egotistical to think that they would even want me to lead. So for me, leadership, Al has always been just a person that’s willing to put in the work. 

[00:13:53] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And 

[00:13:54] Mayor Bruce Harrell: the right kind of work. ’cause you could be a terrible leader, destructive leader.

[00:13:57] So that’s how I work with people. Mm-hmm. [00:14:00] The humility part is I think, um. I don’t wanna say it’s a gift, but it’s, let me describe what that means to me. That I’m never afraid to show vulnerability. That I’m very confident in who I’m as a human being. Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:16] Jonathan Sposato: When I 

[00:14:16] Mayor Bruce Harrell: say my prayers in the morning or at night, I feel good with the person I see in the mirror.

[00:14:20] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:21] Mayor Bruce Harrell: But I’m around people and we’re in a, for a, we’re in a tough race. We’re in a tough competition. We have a tough challenge in front of us. I’m not afraid to hug my. Person next to me and said, Hey man, I’m scared. Mm-hmm. I’m worried. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Let me lean on you. You lean on me. Mm-hmm. And I’ve learned that when you show vulnerability from an authentic place, that people migrate to you and you migrate to them, and that’s where great teams are formed.

[00:14:50] Yeah. I’m never afraid to ask the stupid question in a class. Mm-hmm. Everyone will sit there and act like they know it. Mm-hmm. And sometimes I’ll ask a person next to me, did you understand what they [00:15:00] meant? Or what did that mean? And they’ll say, shoot, I don’t know either. And I say, well, I’m gonna ask the question.

[00:15:04] Mm-hmm. So humility for me is just being a willingness to show vulnerability. And I think my mother and father always drilled that into me. Mm-hmm. I remember my dad always saying, he says, um, had a little nickname for him. It’s called Baba Dutch. He says, Hey, Baba, do, he said, Baba douch. If you don’t understand something, just ask the question.

[00:15:22] And I say, really, dad? You just ask the question. And I said, okay. And he wrote that into me as a, as a child uhhuh. Um, so even now I’m sitting around my group and I say, now what does that mean again? Or my comms team will put a word in there and I’ll say, I’m not sure that word is that. Proper use of that word.

[00:15:42] What does that mean again? Mm-hmm. Right. So that’s the humility part. I think that helps me form well in teams. 

[00:15:48] Jonathan Sposato: I’m recalling, um, I think I was like 25 or 26 at the time I was working at Microsoft. You know, everybody’s hair was on fire. This was in the early nineties, and I was reporting to Lisa Bruel, [00:16:00] who was a corporate vice president at the time, and her hair was less on fire.

[00:16:03] She was always very calm. We were all moving 80 miles an hour, and she always seemed like the consummate professional and such a great leader, and strong and capable. And I remember that I asked her, Lisa, what is your job like as a vice president? Wow, you’re running hundreds of people in your division with many hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, on the p and l.

[00:16:25] And she said, Jonathan, you don’t realize how. Lonely. This job is how really, I don’t have anyone to talk to, and you have to sort of present a certain side of yourself, but at the same time, you also have to be balanced and be yourself and not be afraid to ask the right questions and not be afraid to, to not always be the smartest person in a room is, is I think that how she put it.

[00:16:51] And that always stuck with me. And I actually think that the. Very top leaders, sort of category five leadership is what you’ve just said, which [00:17:00] is, uh, not being afraid to say like, well, wait a minute. What does that word mean? And is it really what we want to be using in front of your team so that you arrive at the right answer?

[00:17:09] Mayor Bruce Harrell: That’s a great description and great story about Lisa. Yeah, 

[00:17:12] Jonathan Sposato: yeah. I’m sure you, you, you know her as well. Of course. Um, yeah. I continue to learn from her. I was on a panel with her recently. So you and your wife Joanne, have raised three children. How has being a dad influenced how you approached a job of mayor?

[00:17:27] I would imagine that there are similarities. 

[00:17:30] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Yeah. I think being a dad for me is, first of all, I thought. When my mother and father raised me, I was, they had no life that their purpose on earth were just to meet my needs. I mean, I believed that until I was like in college and I realized, oh, you know, they were, they were in their thirties and forties.

[00:17:45] They had, they did have a life too. Mm-hmm. But, you know, you don’t think that as a very self-centered child. Mm-hmm. And what. I realized when I became a father is really the importance of being in the presence, being with them right now. And I was that father that would change as [00:18:00] many diapers as possible that would bathe the kids.

[00:18:03] I mean, I was pretty active. Mm-hmm. I wouldn’t miss a game. I would coach their teams if the coaches would have me. 

[00:18:07] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. 

[00:18:08] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And I always wanted to be present. And when I am mayor, everyone has. A certain issue or two or three that are most important to them. It could be trees, it could be housing, it could be public safety.

[00:18:22] And often they’re talking to me about what’s most important to them, and I’ve mastered the art of being president with that person. Mm-hmm. I’ve spent. Literally hours at parks talking to people about trees. Mm-hmm. Not about income inequality, not about housing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Unaffordability. Mm-hmm. About trees.

[00:18:38] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:39] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And then later that evening, I’ll bump into someone perhaps at a restaurant, and it’s all about public safety. 

[00:18:44] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:45] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And I’m thinking, well. Do you care about trees? I don’t give a damn about trees, brother. I won’t talk about public safety. And so I, I’ve learned that I have to really be present for that person’s issues.

[00:18:56] One is not more important in life, but to that person one [00:19:00] is more important. 

[00:19:00] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:01] Mayor Bruce Harrell: So it’s the, the notion of always being present, like right now, Jonathan, as we do this podcast mm-hmm. I’m just thinking about you, what we’re talking about and looking in, in the eyes of being present. Mm-hmm. Now I have to tell you that, you know, I have a.

[00:19:15] I think I have a debate tonight and I have a, I think a couple news interviews later today. Mm-hmm. So I can look at my watch and start thinking about now what am I gonna say to that question? Mm-hmm. And it takes a certain level of discipline to be present. Yeah. And I think that. That’s what I’ve learned as a father is always being present with who I can be present with at the time.

[00:19:33] Jonathan Sposato: Wow. I like that a lot. That’s something I can actually, as a father myself, of, um, a 16-year-old take back with me to do right now. I would say that that’s one of the biggest challenges is as you as. Hopefully, you know, move forward in life and your career develops. You’re doing big things, you scale up and people know you and you’ve got lots of different, uh, areas that you touch on.

[00:19:53] I do think being present in each segment and in with each person is it, it does become, uh, [00:20:00] a challenge and there are very few people like you who are. Great at it. I’ve seen you sort of go from thing to thing and and be very present in a way that they would say about you. You referenced it, the Kennedys.

[00:20:11] But my friend Matt Berman used to work with JFK Jr on George Magazine and I’d hired Matt to be the art director at Seattle Magazine ’cause I wanted Seattle Magazine to have. National level, sort of caliber. And he used to always say that about JFK Jr. It would take him 45 minutes to leave a room because he wanted to make sure that he knew that it was a privilege to be who he was and to be adored by the public.

[00:20:36] And he made sure that every person from some kid to an old lady, to some, you know, adoring fan would, would get some time with him and be very present. Um, so 

[00:20:46] Mayor Bruce Harrell: yeah, but, and you know. Full disclosure here mm-hmm. As I try to be, is it takes, it’s, it gets harder for me often. 

[00:20:54] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. 

[00:20:55] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Uh, I try not to look at my watch when I’m talking to a person mm-hmm.

[00:20:58] Or glance down at my phone mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] When I’m talking to someone. But over the weekend, for example, I, I had many, many events and I was dealing with the issue down in, in Portland, I go to the Husky game. Mm-hmm. I’m, I’m there. It’s the biggest game of the year. Mm-hmm. They’re playing the number one team in the country.

[00:21:14] I literally had just gotten off the phone with Mayor Keith Wilson in Portland, and I’d just got a phone with the governor. Mm-hmm. I’m running to a forum, so I put my phone down, I’m trying to peek at the scores, and I got blasted by some people, rightfully so, that they were saying, Hey, are you here? Are you at the game?

[00:21:28] And I just said, you know, I’m. I left the stadium and we were winning. Yeah. But now we’re apparently losing. I thought maybe they’d be interested in an update. Uh, they weren’t. 

[00:21:37] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:37] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And that was a good example of where, uh, of course my wife gave me the business later. Mm-hmm. She says, you’re really good at being present, Bruce, but I saw you look at your phone two or three times to get a score check.

[00:21:49] I said, well, I said, because Ohio State started to clo with us. And, um. I’m very affectionate toward the program. Of course. And so, so I was very [00:22:00] intentional. I, you know, every night I try to, uh, I keep a little diary and, and I said, you know, that was a good example of not being present when people want you there.

[00:22:09] So when I talked to my kids and my grandkids and, you know, I had to literally miss a, one of my grandchildren’s birthday the other day ’cause of a forum. 

[00:22:16] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:17] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And I just assured her that, that won’t happen again. Mm-hmm. That I just did. You know, Papa Bruce had to. Be somewhere. Mm-hmm. So being present is not something you, it’s an art.

[00:22:26] Yeah. Any, like any art, you have to get better and better and you take the feedback and you move on. Yeah. 

[00:22:31] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Speaking to you as um, sort of person to person, I’m getting a renewed appreciation and I don’t know why I didn’t realize this, but. Boy, that must be one of the most challenging aspects of being a public figure like you, is that every moment can potentially be scrutinized.

[00:22:47] You know, I mean, I’m looking at my phone, I don’t know how many times a minute, you know, whether it’s checking a score or checking a text message, or, you know, wondering where my kid is, you know, on the find, find my, you know, his location. So yeah, that must be really [00:23:00] challenging to have that level of scrutiny.

[00:23:02] Yeah. 

[00:23:03] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Well, and it’s, it’s scrutiny. But it’s also, and I don’t, I’m not particularly talking about this person or persons that talked about that, is some people are always looking for the flaws in a person. Mm-hmm. There’s another, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Personal philosophy that I’ve said to my cabinet. I say to my executive team, always try to catch people in the act of doing something, right?

[00:23:26] Mm-hmm. See them doing things right and affirm that they’re doing things right. Mm-hmm. Because I could spend the entire day with the gotchas. 

[00:23:34] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. If 

[00:23:35] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I’m, that’s what I’m looking for. 

[00:23:36] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:36] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I, I could spot out many flaws all day long with people around me or in myself. 

[00:23:41] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:41] Mayor Bruce Harrell: But try to catch people in the act of doing things right.

[00:23:43] And you’d be amazed at how much energy you draw from that, how much creativity develops from that synergy. Positive outcomes. And so in my life, I’m, I am in a situation where everyone’s trying to catch me in the act of doing something. Wrong. Mm-hmm. But that’s just completely contrary to [00:24:00] my personal philosophy.

[00:24:01] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I can understand that. Okay. We’ll go back to the family sort of daily life when you have a rare, free evening, and I’m sure it’s very rare. What does that look like at the Herold household? Uh uh, any favorite rituals, meals, guilty pleasure TV shows? 

[00:24:19] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Absolutely. So my wife, Joanne and I, we hold hands and we watch, uh, tv.

[00:24:23] We try to at least 30 minutes and we love. Science fiction, Uhhuh. Oh, is that right? Different, different types of, nothing contemporary. Uhhuh, because every time we watch a contemporary series, uh, whether it’s on one of the streaming platforms, it’s just a little offput to me. So whether it, 

[00:24:39] Jonathan Sposato: sometimes it hits too close to home.

[00:24:40] It it does. And you’re like, oh, oh my God. I don’t, I 

[00:24:42] Mayor Bruce Harrell: don’t want to be focused on that now. Yeah. I love historical. Series Science fiction, just what I called an altered reality types of shows. All right? And so we, we’ll go through one at maybe two or three seasons and watch Lil Every Night. And it is, and I enjoy that.

[00:24:56] Yeah, it’s sort of fun because she’s one of these people that has [00:25:00] the, the watch that monitors everything that she does, right? And I don’t want that watch by the way, that tells me I don’t wanna know what my blood pressure’s on my watch. So. She always tells me that that quiet time where we enjoy a series on a streaming platform counts as her sleep.

[00:25:15] Mm-hmm. She says, it counts as my sleep. I’m thinking, well, you’re wide awake with me. But yeah, so that’s what we like to do and it, it, uh, it relaxes us. 

[00:25:21] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. I, I’m actually really jealous, Bruce, because, um, my wife and I can never agree on what to watch together. She likes her acorn. And her Brit box.

[00:25:32] And I like my cool sci-fi stuff, you know? I like my Star Trek. I like Star Wars too, you know? I like Alien Earth, you know? That’s the one I’m into now, but, um, probably a question you haven’t gotten so far. What’s the funniest or most unexpected thing that’s ever happened to you? At a public event as a mayor.

[00:25:52] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Well, one event that happened that, you know, we spent a lot of time thinking about what I’m gonna say at speeches. Mm-hmm. And I have a comm scheme, and they’ll draft a speech [00:26:00] and, and I have grabbed the wrong speech on occasion and I will Oh, wing it as though it’s the right speech. And there was one, we were preparing for the FIFA games and I was down on the waterfront and I remember my comms person kept saying, you know, really, Seattle’s one of the greatest soccer.

[00:26:16] Cities in the country. In the country. And, and I said, really? I said, well, I’d love the sounders and the rain, but I, I don’t get that angle, that one of the grease. Oh yeah. Go lean into it because the so, and we’re gonna have FIFA games here and, you know, I didn’t grow up with a lot of soccer around me, so I said, so, so lean into it hard, lean into it hard.

[00:26:34] And I, I didn’t have any written speech. I didn’t grab anything. He says, lean into it. So then the, there must have been, this is when we were first announced that we’re gonna be a whole city. Mm-hmm. So I said, I’m in. And the mic microphones got got in front of me and I said, we are the best soccer city in the world, in the world.

[00:26:51] And I’m just saying, going on, you know, the veins coming outta my neck and I’m selling it, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:56] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. 

[00:26:57] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And then after they finish, my comms [00:27:00] team looked at me and said. Well, you didn’t hear what we said. We said the country we’re not, we we’re not Barcelona here, we’re not, we’re not Paris. Here, we’re not.

[00:27:09] And I said, I thought you said the world. And they said, and so I, I was thinking, well, should I, should I, should I read it, reel it in a little bit? And they said, no, just, just go for it. It’s just looking into it. And I do remember when I said that one of the reporters said in the world, I said, yes. In the world, 

[00:27:27] Jonathan Sposato: Uhhuh.

[00:27:27] That’s great. I love it. Actually. What, what, and actually more importantly, what did our other friend Peter Alva think? Uh, did he give you a hard time about that or, no? Peter 

[00:27:35] Mayor Bruce Harrell: was in the area, but he didn’t hear that interview and I was, uh, I’m, I’m, I think I sold it. So we perhaps we will be someday, but yeah.

[00:27:44] There were there, there were no Parisians around, so, 

[00:27:47] Jonathan Sposato: right, right. You, you were selling it forward, as they say. Uh, you know, I I, I actually kind of think of the mayor as in some ways, like the CEO of the city, and this would not be the first time that any CEO has, uh, sold things forward a bit [00:28:00] and, um, and told a bigger story.

[00:28:01] Yeah. That, that’s, that’s actually very funny. 

[00:28:03] Mayor Bruce Harrell: I was gonna. Tell another story too. Yeah. And then I’ll just make it sort of short. But very recently, within a few months I was preparing a speech, and again, I’m meeting with my comms director and we’re going over these changes and, and we had some fire written down.

[00:28:15] I said, oh, we’re gonna change this. We’re gonna change that. We’re gonna change this, and I’m ready and practiced a little bit. And then I grabbed it, what I thought, I grabbed it. Mm-hmm. And. Literally I’m giving the speech and I looked down and I grabbed the first speech, which is totally, it didn’t have any of my new notes on there.

[00:28:31] Mm-hmm. ’cause I wanted, I do a re rewrites often. Mm-hmm. And I looked down at it and I said, in the middle of the speech, I said, oh man, I grabbed the wrong speech. And, and then I had to wing it. Of course. Um, so we’ve had funny things like that occur. Mm-hmm. And I just roll with it because, you know, that’s what the job requires half the time, so.

[00:28:49] Yeah. 

[00:28:49] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Well, you’re a brave soul for, for winging it so well. So city hall, you know, it’s a serious place. Maybe it can feel heavy. And as you’ve noted, you know, you’re constantly having to [00:29:00] switch gears, going from talking to someone about trees to the quality of life for people in our city. How do you keep balance and how do you keep a sense of humor and Yeah.

[00:29:09] Mayor Bruce Harrell: So it has a lot to do with who I surround myself with. Mm-hmm. And as I interview people and check references and their peer groups. Having a sense of humor, having an optimistic attitude, being able to speak your voice and not be a yes person. I have to constantly surround myself around those types of people.

[00:29:33] They could be much younger than me, they could be older than me. Different demographics on how you describe demographics. I mean true diversity. 

[00:29:41] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:42] Mayor Bruce Harrell: But the commonality in this diversity is a great sense of humor. And lived experience. Mm-hmm. Um, authenticity. 

[00:29:50] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:51] Mayor Bruce Harrell: You know, when you look at a lot of resumes, they start looking alike sometimes.

[00:29:56] I mean mm-hmm. They come from good schools and they have some job experience. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] So that wow factor is sort of those intangibles and a sense of humor. And a sense of optimism. The attitude mm-hmm. Is such a large part of it. I will hire over attitude than aptitude any day of the week. Mm-hmm. So that attitude around me is very, very critical.

[00:30:17] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. And I think that that seems to track to your athlete’s mentality of always working hard and, and figuring out, putting in the work. And, uh, you don’t always have to. Have the best arm or have the fastest 40 time. But if you put in the work, you can, um, do better. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:30:33] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Sometimes I describe it on, if you look at a battery, you know there’s a positive side of the battery and the negative side of the battery.

[00:30:39] Jonathan Sposato: Mm. 

[00:30:40] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And people around me, they either give me energy. Or they drain energy. Mm-hmm. There are very few people that are just neutral. 

[00:30:48] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:48] Mayor Bruce Harrell: If you’re just neutral, you have a tendency to still drain. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And there are people that energize me around. The best person in the world is my wife. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:57] My wife is. Mm-hmm. You know, I could feel a [00:31:00] little down and she’s just a, um, is optimism and hope. Mm-hmm. And, and love. And so when I hire people surround, I surround people I like. Positive energy. Mm-hmm. Positive batteries. There are some people that I’m around, not in the work environment, but I’m around, and as soon as I leave I’m like, oh man, this person just drained me out.

[00:31:19] Mm-hmm. I’ve talked to this person for 15 minutes. Mm-hmm. I’m like, oh, that was, that was a dreadful 15 minutes. And then of course, you know the person that soon as they. Call you or text you if someone died mm-hmm. Or something bad happened. Mm-hmm. You know, they can’t wait to bring you bad news. Mm-hmm. One thing I, I tell people that I’m never making the call when, you know, when there’s a death, there’s something.

[00:31:39] Mm-hmm. I just don’t wanna be that person delivering that news. Mm-hmm. And I told my children that, I said, you, you may feel the need to say something like that mm-hmm. That I said, but don’t be that deliverer of bad news if you can avoid it. Mm-hmm. Um, so, so that’s sort of my. Trick or higher positive batteries around me.

[00:31:54] And if positive battery can disagree with you, mm-hmm. They don’t have to be a yes person, but they always [00:32:00] find a positive way to create energy in a workplace. And in the spirit. The spirit is, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re really just walking bodies of energy and spirit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That’s all we are. And so it could be a positive spirit or negative spirit, and that’s mm-hmm.

[00:32:12] And I try to make hiring decisions accordingly. 

[00:32:15] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. I like that metaphor. Positive and negative. Yeah. So let’s talk about something a little bit. Well, we have this saying here at Seattle Magazine that what happens here in Seattle impacts the rest of the world. And I really feel like that, you know, we are, we’re sort of thought leaders in a lot of ways.

[00:32:30] We lead in a lot of different segments like technology, aerospace, ai, and, and I think public policy as well. There’s something happening now, obviously nationally that is affecting all of us. This current administration is unlike any that we’ve ever seen, and I know for a fact that you have a very strong perspective on it.

[00:32:53] You’ve taken some public stance against the current president. What drives that? Well, there’s a [00:33:00] few 

[00:33:00] Mayor Bruce Harrell: things, and this is what I, I’ve said to many groups, Hmm. Um, that what we’re experiencing from Trump has people completely riled up and angry and sometimes fearful. We’re talking about possible tanks coming in and federalized national guards, and it creates all kinds of anxieties.

[00:33:18] And what have to tell folks is that for me as mayor. You know, it was an executive order, 9 0 6 6 that literally put my mother in a concentration camp. Mm-hmm. Okay. And I listened to her stories growing up on 12th and LER, where my grandfather owned many flower shops. Mm-hmm. It was that executive order that took all of that property and I literally drive by that area two or three times a week.

[00:33:41] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:43] Mayor Bruce Harrell: What I wanna convey to listeners is I listen to civil rights speakers a lot on podcasts and you know, for African Americans, we could take a page out of our own history book. Mm-hmm. When you look at what African Americans have had to go through in this country, the middle passage, which is the [00:34:00] probably the most atrocious and inhumane experience.

[00:34:04] On the earth where millions and millions of slaves were killed or raped, murdered in transport, and still found a way to thrive and become who they are now. Mm-hmm. When you look at the Jim Crow laws or judicial decisions like Plessy versus Ferguson or mm-hmm. The Dred Scott decision, where it was clear in that particular case where a black person would go to a free state and still be deemed property.

[00:34:34] Okay, so you have to understand that the trauma that African Americans have gone through compared to what we’re going through now, the lesson there is we’re gonna be okay. Mm-hmm. We are resilient. We are strong. That’s right. We will win over this tyrant. And so while people are rightfully fearful now. I find strength in both my black history, in my Japanese [00:35:00] history that I will fight Trump and I’m the right person to fight Trump because for me it’s personal and I will wake up earlier than him.

[00:35:08] I will go to bed later than he goes to bed, and I will. Make sure that I have strong allies around me to fight this person. And that’s why yesterday with Nick Brown mm-hmm. Uh, the attorney General, he and I spoke from mm-hmm. Lived experience and how we will protect our city against Trump’s tyranny. So for me, it’s more than a political speech.

[00:35:27] It triggers every textbook that I’ve read, ever experienced that I’ve had to prepare for the moment of fighting someone like him. And so I’ve said it, lighter conversations. Well, it’s personal for me to make sure that I protect everyone here, 

[00:35:41] Jonathan Sposato: so, wow, I feel you. And for those of us who are concerned, for those of us who worry about that, there aren’t enough of us standing up to resist.

[00:35:55] What’s your advice to sort of the average Seattle Light, or [00:36:00] to anyone who’s, who’s some sort of leader in the Seattle community? What should we all be doing right now? 

[00:36:07] Mayor Bruce Harrell: Number one, let me tell you what we should not be doing. Mm. We should not let Trump divide us. Mm. We play into his strategy when we start imploding upon one another, and that’s exactly what he wants us to do.

[00:36:21] Mm-hmm. To take our attention away from his. Bad tariff policy from the interest rates that we’re suffering from. Mm-hmm. From the conflicts in the world that he should be solving. From cancer researcher to Fred Hutch where he threatens to pull funds from, we should not implode with one another. We should engage in peaceful protests to make sure our voices are heard and not demonize one another in the process.

[00:36:44] I believe that. 99% of the people that I’m around on a given day are helping me fight against Trump. And when people say, be louder, be louder. I said, you get loud too. Mm-hmm. So it’s very seductive to start pointing the fingers at other [00:37:00] folks. Mm-hmm. So stay united. You know, like I said, over the weekend I talked to Senator Kentwell and mm-hmm.

[00:37:06] And the governor and the attorney General, the mayor of Portland. I, I’ve talked to a lot of folks to make sure we are united 

[00:37:11] Jonathan Sposato: mm-hmm. 

[00:37:12] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And not play into his strategy. So these conversations are really good and I’m all around the city. Letting people know that again, we are resilient. Mm-hmm. You have to play the long game on a short time leader like Trump.

[00:37:25] Trump will be out of office in a couple of years. Hopefully we’ll win the midterms. We’ll get a much, much, we can’t get a worse president, so we’re gonna get a better president and we could work on that, but not, we don’t wanna play into his strategy, which is dividing us. 

[00:37:40] Jonathan Sposato: Right. So stay united and be loud.

[00:37:44] Yes. So when you think about your journey from growing up in Seattle to Husky football to now being mayor, what part of that path do you think would surprise your younger self the most? [00:38:00] 

[00:38:00] Mayor Bruce Harrell: When I grew up, to be brutally honest with you and myself, I didn’t grow up around rich people. I didn’t grow up around highly educated people.

[00:38:09] Mm. I didn’t know lawyers or doctors unless I was going for a physical. And when I was able to get into school on a football scholarship and go to law school, I started meeting new people. And as mayor, I could meet the most a powerful CEO. Mm-hmm. And I could meet a janitor. 

[00:38:25] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:26] Mayor Bruce Harrell: And what I’ve learned along the way is.

[00:38:29] They are the same in the sense of, um, they’re, they could be insecure, they could be a human being. I don’t make any assumptions that one’s better than the other. And this path has allowed me to realize the insecurities and again, the beauty in all people. I’m never impressed with a person that either has money or doesn’t have money one way or the other.

[00:38:52] Some of the smartest people I’ve known and some of the best people have been people of limited means, and I’ve met [00:39:00] different types of incredible wealth. Some people are really good people and I see why they’ve done so well and some people are complete jerks that could never have enough. Mm-hmm. So you realize the human experience, whether it’s socioeconomic or whatever, their personal issues.

[00:39:13] I think it all roots from how they were raised and what kind of love they had in their, in their heart. So being mayor has exposed me to more types of people than I did as a kid. Mm-hmm. And I never thought I’d be able to say that. 

[00:39:26] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. And finally, if, if we could peel away the title of Mayor for just a moment and ask Bruce Harold the man.

[00:39:37] To finish this sentence. At the end of the day, what matters most to me is 

[00:39:43] Mayor Bruce Harrell: family. I just believe that at the end of the day, and family, not just through DNA family, could be just people that I’ve surrounded myself around that I know. I love them. Mm-hmm. And in turn they love me. And at the end of the day, that’s really what it’s all about.[00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] I’ve reached a point to where, you know, my, I had an older brother and he’s died of cancer. I had a, my mom and dad, they both passed away. And so I realized having helped many people transition how a really short life really is. I’ve had friends that I’ve gone to high school where I’ve held their hands and they’ve transitioned.

[00:40:18] And I realize at the end of the day, it really is surrounding yourself around people that you love and who love you. And so that’s, that’s what I’m about at the end of the day. 

[00:40:28] Jonathan Sposato: Mayor Harrell, thank you for letting us get to know you today. Not just as Seattle’s Mayor, but as Bruce, the son, the husband, the father, the neighbor.

[00:40:40] It’s a hundred percent refreshing to hear about the stories and everyday moments that ground you, because that’s what makes leadership relatable and real. On behalf of our listeners at Seattle Magazine, we appreciate. I appreciate the candor and humor you’ve shared with us and to our audience, thank you for joining us.

[00:40:59] We [00:41:00] hope you’re walking away with a richer sense of demand behind the office, and a reminder that at its heart leadership is still about empathy and about helping others.