The Truth About College Admissions With Adam Miller

[00:00:00] Jonathan Sposato: Hi, I’m Jonathan Sposato, the owner and publisher of Seattle Magazine and Seattle Business Magazine. Today on a Seattle Magazine podcast, we’re diving into one of the most anxiety filled and often mystifying rites of passage for families, the college admissions process. Our guest today is my good friend, Adam Miller, director of admissions at Whitman College, one of the most respected liberal arts institutions in the Pacific Northwest.

[00:00:26] Adam has spent years on the front lines of admissions, evaluating thousands and thousands of applications and guiding families through an increasingly complex landscape of essays, test scores, extracurriculars, and ever changing standards. He’s top notch in this field, and we’re very lucky to have him here today.

[00:00:47] And he’s here to help us understand what’s really going on behind the curtain of college admissions, how families can set their teens up for success without losing their sanity and what the future of higher education might look like. And of course, in full disclosure, I have to say that I am a graduate of Whitman College.

[00:01:05] Many, many. Many decades ago, Adam, welcome to our podcast. It’s great to be here, Jonathan.

[00:01:13] Adam Miller: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:14] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. How was your, how was your trip here? You had to get on some sort of, uh, uh, uh, early, what did you call this flight? I called it the Soul Crusher. It’s a, it’s a 5:00 AM flight out of Walla Walla, right to Seattle.

[00:01:26] I see. When I go to Walla Walla, fortunately, I, I tend to, uh, it’s like a 45 minute flight. Really very fast. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful country there. So welcome to the Seattle Magazine podcast. You’ve read thousands of applications in your career. What’s something that sticks out? What’s one story of a student that still sticks with you and why?

[00:01:49] Adam Miller: I’m gonna harken back. I think this was my first or second year at Whitman. Really lovely essay a student wrote, and it was about their daily commute to school.

[00:01:58] Jonathan Sposato: Hmm.

[00:01:59] Adam Miller: The kind of mundane details, the the little things that they noticed along the way every day. And at first I was trying to figure out what, what the purpose of this was, but they.

[00:02:10] Made these kind of observations about things that were changing over time and ended up connecting it to their growing interest in sociology and urban development. But I just thought it was such a beautiful way of taking something very simple, just a routine of your daily life. Mm-hmm. Not a big flashy story.

[00:02:27] No, no major tension. but rather showing us the, the student’s intellectual curiosity, the connections that they were making, and kinda extrapolating a little bit to how they thought about their future. At its best, a college essay is not something that’s overly dramatic or overwrought, but rather it’s just a, a, a picture of a student’s life.

[00:02:48] Mm-hmm. And the way that they see that bleeding into the rest of

[00:02:51] Jonathan Sposato: their life. Mm. I see. And is that something I’m, if you don’t mind me sort of getting to the heart of this, is that important in the admissions process that the essay not be over the top? Just be sort of like a very candid. Authentic, down to earth portrayal of maybe what’s important in a person’s life, or what do you say?

[00:03:12] Adam Miller: I think a lot of essays can work in different ways. Uhhuh, some people have an amazing story to tell. Mm-hmm. And absolutely the essay is a good opportunity to tell that story. I think. There’s a danger that seeps into so much of the college process mm-hmm. Of comparing yourself to others.

[00:03:28] I see. And I see, I think that when students are working on essays, they may have a friend or have an acquaintance who is telling a really dramatic story. They have a, a major hardship they’ve overcome mm-hmm. Or something really impressive that they’ve accomplished. Mm-hmm. And they feel like. They’re not gonna be able to compare to that sort of a story.

[00:03:44] Right. But the reality is, so many of the great essays I read aren’t about something flashy, but rather about somebody’s engagement within their community or their observations of small details in, in

[00:03:57] Jonathan Sposato: day-to-day life. I see, I see. So, so one shouldn’t feel pressure to, to measure up to someone else’s, you know, uh, challenges or, yeah.

[00:04:05] Right. If it’s not there, it’s not there.

[00:04:06] Adam Miller: Yeah, if there’s one theme that I’ll probably say many times, it’s that this whole process is so stress filled as, as you mentioned in in the introduction, and I think that a lot of that anxiety comes from focus on things that are maybe either out of somebody’s control or the kind of mythology that’s been built up around college admission that maybe isn’t really based in

[00:04:26] Jonathan Sposato: reality.

[00:04:27] Adam Miller: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:28] Jonathan Sposato: Now, in the aforementioned example, did this person end up thriving at Whitman in the way that you expected?

[00:04:33] Adam Miller: Absolutely. Yeah. So, uh, they, they came, they, uh, ended up getting one of our top scholarships. Mm-hmm. We’re a leader on campus. Mm-hmm. Have gone on to do some pretty impressive things.

[00:04:42] Nice, nice,

[00:04:43] Jonathan Sposato: cool. I find admissions work. Utterly fascinating. You are in some ways, like a king maker, right? Or one of the gatekeepers to put it that way. How did you first get into admissions work and, and what keeps you passionate about it?

[00:05:00] Adam Miller: Yeah.

[00:05:00] Jonathan Sposato: I’m

[00:05:01] Adam Miller: tempted to unpack the, the gatekeeper, king maker piece, but we’ll, we’ll get into that later maybe.

[00:05:05] But how did I get into it? My path wasn’t maybe the typical path. A lot of folks who go into college admissions. Were tour guides as undergrads. They maybe worked in the admission office, right after college and kinda just stuck with it. Mm-hmm. That was their kind of, their first job. For me.

[00:05:24] I graduated, uh, I ended up playing baseball in Europe for a couple years. I tried my hand at an accounting firm, uh, that didn’t go super well for me. I then started working at colleges, but not in admissions, but in residential life. Mm-hmm. So I, I, I was a live-in staff in a residence hall. I started working on my master’s degree and got my first taste of admission experience reading applications for my alma mater, which is Claremont McKenna College.

[00:05:49] Mm-hmm. So doing my master’s degree, have another full-time job, but I had a chance to kind of see what it was like to. To, to read these applications, to, to, to understand students’ stories. See how an admission committee worked at Claremont McKenna. And after I finished my master’s degree and I was trying to think about what was next, Claremont McKenna was hiring for a full-time role and I threw my hat in the ring for that, got that job, and quickly found that I actually loved the whole process of recruiting students.

[00:06:17] Wow. Yes, reading applications, but, but it’s also the work that goes on behind the scenes to try to think about how to actually. Go through thousands of applications to get to a, a small number of students who are actually gonna form an incoming class, right? Mm-hmm. This idea that we’re really creating communities that are gonna come from all over the world and meet with each other and learn together and inspire each other.

[00:06:38] Mm. And that’s a, a, a really fun puzzle to solve

[00:06:40] Jonathan Sposato: every year. Mm-hmm. That’s amazing. I, I, I actually didn’t know some of that stuff about you. Uh, the baseball, uh, playing baseball in Europe part, so we’re gonna bookmark that one. Another disclosure that I probably have to make is the fact that I am the parent of a rising junior, and this is the topic du jour in my house right now, which is SAT preparation.

[00:07:03] How do you write a college essay? All of the things that a lot of times a 16, 17 year olds really don’t wanna think about right now before their summer’s over. I guess if I was to, you know, talk to other parents in our social circle about this stuff. Straight from God’s mouth to our ears. If you had to describe the current state of college admissions in one sentence, what would it be?

[00:07:29] Adam Miller: I mean, I think the sentence would be. It is a great time to be applying to college. Oh, to tell, first of all, I mean, there’s just so much more information available to students and families now than when we applied to college decades ago. Yeah. Colleges are doing a better job of telling their story than ever before.

[00:07:47] There’s content that students can access about what faculty are doing research on. these things are at your fingertips using a variety of different tools and. I think when I started in admissions, it made sense that families were trying to wade through hundreds of college options and reverting to third party rankings as a way of trying to figure out what a good fit for you would be.

[00:08:10] And I just think that these days there are much more effective ways to get the information that’s most relevant to you personally, rather than outsourcing that to a third party. So better information I think is actually helpful, although. In some ways also a complicating factor, but the other reason why this is such a great time to be applying to college is, just frankly the numbers.

[00:08:29] If you’re not aware, listeners may not be that this is actually marking a really critical juncture in the life of. Colleges as we start looking at a downward trend In the number of high school graduates. Starting with this next graduating class, so fewer high school graduates in the United States.

[00:08:50] Combined with what appears to be reduced demand for coming to the US from international students. So what that should mean is fewer people applying to colleges in the United States over about the next decade. Yeah. And. At the same time, some colleges, a lot of larger state universities are increasing their enrollment.

[00:09:09] So more spots available for what will be probably a diminishing number of applicants. I think it creates a reality where great applicants will have more options in the next few years than ever before. So I think that’s a really great place to be starting as a college applicant these days.

[00:09:27] Jonathan Sposato: So in a way shifting to more of a buyer’s market. Absolutely. So that’s great. So that’s great for the students, but, but you know, it does seem really, really confusing and you know, there’s stuff about, I’m still personally, I’m confused about some schools are test optional, some are not. The process itself is, has quite a bit of complexity.

[00:09:46] There’s just not a lot of clarity to the. Average person, the lay person, the fundamental differences between a larger university versus a a smaller residential liberal arts school like Whitman. How should someone think about those differences between a large university, typically in a more urban area versus a smaller residential liberal arts college?

[00:10:09] What do you think are the advantages of one or the other? That’s a really

[00:10:14] Adam Miller: big question. I think that there’s a piece of this that is almost self-evident, right? A larger university has more students, usually more programs available, has resources at a larger scale. Mm-hmm. Whether that’s the fitness center, whether that’s the, the amount of lab space mm-hmm.

[00:10:31] You could go on and on, right? There are certain things that larger universities are equipped to do and, have the volume to do mm-hmm. That are, truly phenomenal. And one of the best things about the American higher education system. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Some of these public flagship institutions mm-hmm.

[00:10:47] That do a really wonderful job of serving lots of students at scale. I think that smaller liberal arts colleges. Smaller colleges in general often have surprising levels of scale.

[00:11:00] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:00] Adam Miller: and then add on top of that a level of kind of personal care and tension and support that can really tailor the educational experience mm-hmm.

[00:11:10] To the individual. Mm-hmm. And I think that in a very real way, this is something where there are different flavors of higher education that. Can serve different types of students exceptionally well. And what I think we do see happening is that, larger universities have made really concerted efforts to make the large feel smaller.

[00:11:30] There’s been a proliferation of honors colleges that in some ways are. Echoes of what a liberal arts college is, right? Mm-hmm. Creating smaller colleges within a large university to try to serve specific population of students really, really well. And I think smaller colleges have, in some ways tried to expand their offerings mm-hmm.

[00:11:47] By adding new majors and programs. Mm-hmm. Right? So I think that there’s a little bit of mimicry happening. Within higher education mm-hmm. Is interesting to see what works well at other places and, try to implement those things. Yeah. But I think at its fundamental level, the benefit of a smaller college is going to be like the, the ways in which a community can form and where students can be deeply known by the faculty and the staff at a place.

[00:12:12] Yeah. So that they can get the, the level of support that they need to really become the best version of themselves.

[00:12:18] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. That’s fantastic. I am a graduate of Whitman College, and I too felt that was probably one of the most acutely felt aspects of my own student life, which was the.

[00:12:35] Very, very close and collegial friendships that I would have with my professors in a way that my wife who went to a larger, very venerable public state institution, did not have. And, I distinctly remember a moment when she and I both visited Whitman and the president of college turned to her and asked, well, who are your favorite professors?

[00:13:00] Uh, where you went? And she goes. Are you kidding me? I couldn’t even see them from where I was sitting and, so, so I couldn’t really even pick out a favorite. So not, not that one is better than the other. In fact, I, I actually wanna go into a question about outcomes, if I may, which is that, do you believe that there are.

[00:13:20] Substantive differences in outcomes of the same student. There’s no way to ab tested unless you had a set of twins and maybe you’ve had that, you know, one went to a school like Whitman and one went to UDub, for example. But do you take a position that there are substantive differences in the, in the outcome of, of someone, uh, one way or the other?

[00:13:40] Adam Miller: Something I say a lot is that when folks are evaluating the outcomes. Of students graduated from colleges, they tend to focus on. The ceiling, right. The, the best version of the stories. Right. And this makes sense because colleges, when they’re telling their story, they’re going to focus on the high flyers, the folks that have the, the really amazing outcomes that that colleges are pre proud of.

[00:14:04] And I would say that the ceiling. Is pretty similar for small liberal arts colleges or large universities, CEOs, corporate attorneys, entrepreneurs, uh

[00:14:14] Jonathan Sposato: mm-hmm.

[00:14:14] Adam Miller: Whatever the, the profession might be. I think you can find examples of folks that have graduated from all sorts of different Yeah. That’s types of colleges in those areas.

[00:14:20] Mm-hmm. I think where. The outcome case at smaller colleges is strongest, is more, I think the median experience. Oh, I see. It’s that because of the care and attention and support that’s provided, the ways in which students are pretty intimately known mm-hmm. And aware of resources are really devoted to making sure that students are getting the opportunities they need to kind of.

[00:14:43] Be at their best. It’s really rare for a student to fall through the cracks at a smaller college or to not have opportunities to mm-hmm. To attain the types of success mm-hmm. That they’re looking for. And that’s not to say that every student that goes to Whitman or to other small colleges immediately exceeds the career success that they may have had in mind early on, but they had access to opportunities.

[00:15:06] I think throughout their four years that put them in a position to be able to be successful. I do think that access to opportunity is something that’s harder to do at scale. Mm-hmm. Just because of the, the volume. If you have 10,000 students in an incoming class, almost by definition there are going to be fewer opportunities per capita.

[00:15:25] Yeah. Then you’re going to find a, a smaller institution

[00:15:28] Jonathan Sposato: Makes sense. Somewhat adjacent to that line of thinking. And does Whitman being smaller? Allow you as the head of admissions, take more chances on unconventional applicants.

[00:15:43] Adam Miller: Yeah. The short answer is yes, I think to that. Mm-hmm. I think that when we’re looking at applicants whose trajectory throughout high school may have had some bumps in the road mm-hmm.

[00:15:52] Or maybe didn’t hit their stride for one reason or another, a family reason or an undiagnosed learning disability, or whatever the case may be. Right. And we can kind see that the spark has kind of caught fire. Mm-hmm. Or maybe that they’re going to need some additional support mm-hmm. When they come through.

[00:16:07] I can think about the specific person or people at Whitman who are gonna be able to help that student grow and succeed and continue to be transformed. Mm-hmm. And feel really confident that taking that, I guess we would call it a chance. I don’t think of it as a risk. Mm-hmm. I just think of it as a, a student who will need a different set of.

[00:16:26] Supports mm-hmm. In order to be at their best. I know. And I feel confident that we can provide that. and I think that’s something that’s really special about a place like Whitman where uh, we have really that team of supports that can be. Available to, to any student that we bring in.

[00:16:44] Jonathan Sposato: Very good. Something a little bit more tactical here, which is that test optional policies have been in the news a lot. As I stated earlier, I’m, I’m kind of confused by what does it really mean? Some places are test optional, some are not, or they were, and then they’ve gone back. How have they actually impacted admissions decisions?

[00:17:04] Adam Miller: I think test optional and testing policies get a lot more. Attention in the media mm-hmm. Than those of us that actually work in college admissions. Really? Oh, I see. Pay to them uhhuh. I mean it, you know, the move away from required testing during the pandemic, uh, was, was notable. Mm-hmm. There have been a very small number of colleges that have returned to requiring testing.

[00:17:28] I think they all. Articles written about them mm-hmm. In major publications Right. When they go back to testing. Yeah. There aren’t a lot of articles being written about all the colleges that have just stuck with their Yeah. Test optional policies. Right, right and that makes sense. Mm-hmm. It’s, so all that to say is a place like Whitman, we were test optional before the pandemic.

[00:17:44] Mm-hmm. Uh, it’s been a decade now that we, we’ve had a test optional policy. So in a way we haven’t really even been that impacted by the shifts that have happened during the pandemic. But I think kind of to the broader question, I think the. Public imagines the impact of test optional policies as being greater than they are in reality.

[00:18:03] Mm-hmm. Here’s the thing, right. Colleges for the most part, always thought of standardized tests as just one of many factors. Mm-hmm. In evaluating an application. In my experience, even. Before working in a test optional environment, it was pretty rare for a test score to make or break an application.

[00:18:22] Mm-hmm. Or even to really influence decisions.

[00:18:24] Jonathan Sposato: Wow. Very much. That is absolutely the opposite of sort of conventional wisdom. Yeah. Particularly if you come from an Asian American family like mine, you would think that that was the most important thing. Uh,

[00:18:34] Adam Miller: yeah.

[00:18:34] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah.

[00:18:34] Adam Miller: And I think there’s something human about saying, well, look, uh, it’s in a series of kind of complex variables that might be weighted differently.

[00:18:40] That’s what mm-hmm. Holistic admission is. Yeah. It’s just looking at everything that. Kind of comes into an application or makes up an applicant. Mm-hmm. And, weight those things with context in mind. Mm-hmm. That’s hard to understand. It, it can maybe not always feel super transparent. Mm-hmm. And I think that in that sea of maybe uncertainty about how an individual student might be evaluated a number mm-hmm.

[00:19:04] That is on some sort of standardized scale is an easy thing to revert to. But I would also say that the reality is that. A lot of colleges, I think, find that standardized testing has a, an illusion of rigor to it. Mm-hmm. That doesn’t really match the, the reality on the ground. Mm-hmm. We, we don’t have a standardized Interesting.

[00:19:26] Can you go into that more? Yeah. We don’t have a standardized, uh, curriculum in the United States. I see, I see. Yeah. So I think the thing that’s tricky with standardized testing is that. The question is standardized to what?

[00:19:39] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:39] Adam Miller: The United States doesn’t have a standardized high school curriculum. Right.

[00:19:42] Students go to lots of different types of high schools. They’re exposed to lots of different types of curricula, but they sit for this one or two different standardized exams that weight things a little bit differently. There’s, they seem to reward answering multiple choice questions in a very quick way, right?

[00:20:01] There’s time is a factor and the types of things that. Standardized tests tend to reward, aren’t necessarily the types of things that colleges are looking for. Mm. When they’re actually evaluating quality students at that institution. Mm-hmm. So at Whitman, I think it’s pretty rare for a student to take a timed, multiple choice exam.

[00:20:20] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:20] Adam Miller: So being good at that in high school mm-hmm. Maybe a sign of something. Mm-hmm. But it’s not likely to be a sign that you’re going to be a really good critical thinker in the ways that we’re gonna be looking for at Whitman. And furthermore, I don’t think that, a lot of professions in the United States actually are looking to optimize for people who can choose the best answer out of five.

[00:20:44] In a time limited way. I think we’re looking for people who can solve complex questions that might take more than 30 seconds to filter through and where we don’t have a set list of answers to, to choose from. Right. So all that to say nothing wrong with those tests. Mm-hmm. I think it makes sense that students prepare for them and take them.

[00:21:02] I think for some colleges there are probably good reasons why they. Want to use those tests. Mm-hmm. As one of many factors in the admission process, but the overall weight that has been put on those tests in the public consciousness, I don’t think matches how most colleges use them, even before the movement to test optional.

[00:21:19] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. And that, that’s super interesting, Adam, because, certainly I felt that in, in industry. I have worked for many years at an institution, a top tier, blue chip, publicly traded company like a Microsoft where they didn’t have a. Deference in the hiring process to the same kinds of attributes that would map to standardized testing.

[00:21:42] I mean, they asked you incredibly intellectually rigorous questions, but there were more like broader problem solving essay questions versus solve this math problem. Now that of course, is specific to the job function that I was at, which was I was not an engineer. I was sort of engineering adjacent.

[00:21:59] I was, you know, kind of hired, ended up more. Program manager, product manager track. Now, the reason why I am bringing that up is because the AB test here is that. When Google bought my first company, Google by then was also a very mature, publicly traded blue chip tech company. You know, in fact, I think Microsoft and Google were vying an Apple were vying for, you know, which was like the very top, highly capitalized company in the world.

[00:22:27] And at Google they took a totally different worldview. Uh, to my surprise, my boss, Marissa Meyer, who is the senior Vice President of the Consumer Products Division, she cared very much. What people’s GPAs were. In college, uh, that was part of their application process. And I know GPA is different from test scores, but that was like this culturally, there was this prideful thing about how well did you do academically?

[00:22:57] And it was not at all outta scope in hiring committee or in a conversation with your colleagues at Google to talk about like, oh yeah, well, yeah. So and so got a near perfect score on their math. SAT. Right. So you have two companies where one didn’t care, one did care, and I would argue that on balance the outcomes were similar.

[00:23:20] They, I mean, they take different approaches to product design and, and kind of, they have slightly different worldviews in terms of desktop versus the internet or cloud versus, but, but over time the outcomes are generally the same. And over time you see that the data shows that. The borders are pretty permeable.

[00:23:40] Former Microsoft employees do really well at Google and vice versa. Right. So that’s my long-winded way of supporting perhaps what you’ve said. That if you extend it out to industry, past college or post-graduate, then perhaps it doesn’t make as much of a difference as we think. So then related to that, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that parents have about what colleges want?

[00:24:07] So I

[00:24:07] Adam Miller: I think a big misconception that I think also ends up adding a lot of stress to applicants is this misconception that colleges expect. 17 year olds to have a fully fleshed out plan for their major, their career aspirations, et cetera. I think it’s totally normal for 17 year olds to be undecided about a lot of things.

[00:24:30] That’s right. Uh, I actually think in most cases it’s helpful for, at least for the college search for students to avoid fixating on a specific subject. Major or career path, and instead think about which colleges offer the sorts of opportunities for growth and transformation that they’re actually gonna be able to take advantage of during their four years.

[00:24:50] Right. The college is a time for growth and the kind of thought experiment I often ask seniors in high school to do as they’re thinking about college is to, you know, imagine who they were three or four years before. Hmm. Right. As a 13 or 14-year-old. Mm-hmm. Think about the ways that they’ve grown and changed during that period of time.

[00:25:10] Mm-hmm. And to ask themselves, would you want your 13-year-old self to make a choice for you as a 17-year-old?

[00:25:18] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:18] Adam Miller: Right. Because the reality is you now at 17 are making a choice for your 21-year-old self. Mm-hmm. Right? And that actual delta may be, uh, more meaningful. Yeah. Might be more meaningful. And so you have to assume you’re going to be.

[00:25:31] Growing and changing over that next four years. Mm-hmm. And so you need to be really thoughtful about what doors you’re opening for your 21-year-old self versus the things that you’re closing. And I think that over focus on a major or a career with some exceptions, right? If you know for sure that you want to be an engineer or a doctor or a nurse, I mean, there’s schools that are well prepared to at least put you on that path.

[00:25:53] But the more you narrow in at. The options that you give yourself at 17, then I think the more room there is for regret at 21 a few years later. So college is among other things, an opportunity to be exposed to new things, to new opportunities, to new fields of study, to have some like really immersive experiences where you can go more deeply into a field or.

[00:26:20] Into an experience that helps you understand how an academic idea plays out in the real world. Mm-hmm. I think those things are really important to being able to figure out what you want to do next. So again, I think when parents are like prone to sometimes say, just pick the college that’s best for your major.

[00:26:38] It presupposes that the student is gonna have their major figured out, and I think it puts added pressure on that 17-year-old and potentially leads to a called search that doesn’t do its primary job, which is to open up possibility rather than narrow it in.

[00:26:52] Jonathan Sposato: Mm, I

[00:26:53] Adam Miller: see, I see.

[00:26:54] Jonathan Sposato: When should families really start thinking about preparing for admissions freshman

[00:27:01] Adam Miller: year later?

[00:27:02] Definitely later. I mean, I, I’m tempted to say spring break of junior year and I, I say that I think spring break of your junior year can be a great time to maybe visit your first college, something local, something nearby. Don’t spend a lot of time and money. Don’t make your first college visit or visit to a college, a school that you think might be at the top of your list.

[00:27:20] You know, give it a trial run. Go to a go to a local place. Yeah. See what it’s like to go on a tour. How do people talk about colleges? What is. What is normal? What do resources look like? You know, ask a few questions, see what types of responses you get. Use that spring break time as a, you know, a launchpad.

[00:27:38] I think that there’s a danger in getting too serious about this college search too early, and it’s that you end up having your ninth and 10th grade years kind of engineered around optimizing what college you get into. Mm-hmm. And I just think that there’s. More important things for 14 and 15 year olds to be doing in order to develop healthy friendships, to kind of start to engage with questions of purpose and meaning in terms of academic growth.

[00:28:07] and if you’re so fixated on trying to fit yourself into a box that you think colleges are going to want, which I do see some families doing when in ninth grade they hire a college consultant who starts telling them, you know, what they need to be doing to get into a top choice college. I think that that runs the risk of.

[00:28:24] Becoming overly packaged for, an institution that, uh, may or may not even be the right fit for, for a student. So, by all means, you know, if you wanna start thinking about colleges earlier and visiting colleges earlier, you know, we welcome you to Whitman to come visit us. But I would just say in general, giving until kind of the end of that junior year is a perfectly normal and healthy time to start getting serious about the process.

[00:28:49] Jonathan Sposato: Adam, sort of related to that, I’m curious to know your thoughts on. Consultants, families using consultants. You know, I, I go to a Starbucks where, uh, at a certain time of a year I see a lot of those consultants show up, sit down with their client student, and uh, there’s seems like there’s a lot of rigorous activity.

[00:29:07] There’s a lot of really interesting things going on. Uh, oftentimes enthusiasm. What are your thoughts on. Families hiring consultants?

[00:29:16] Adam Miller: Oh, that’s a great question, Jonathan. I think there are some really good reasons to hire consultants and some less good reasons. Uh, lemme start with the good reasons.

[00:29:27] So, the college search process, as much as I would love to believe that my profession isn’t causing pain and anxiety and stress, I know that at some level it, it is, right. Uh, it it’s a multi-month process. If you apply to. You know, 10 or 15 colleges, which is pretty normal. There’s a lot of deadlines to keep track of.

[00:29:46] If you’re applying for financial aid, you’ve gotta navigate different requirements and different timelines at different colleges. You have to parse the differences between early decision and early action and restrictive early action and yeah. Wow. All of these things, right? And so it’s a lot to keep track of, even for.

[00:30:03] Really loving parents who are very detail oriented. It would make sense that if somebody has the resources, they might want to outsource some of that complexity to a professional mm-hmm. Somebody who’s done it a lot and knows some of the tips and tricks to, to guide a student through the process.

[00:30:19] It can actually, in some ways empower a parent to be a cheerleader mm-hmm. For their child rather than the project manager. Mm-hmm. It makes a ton of sense to me that, a consultant could fill that role, especially as. You know, many states have re removed funding for school counseling positions so that in many cases you might not have a college counselor, a dedicated college counselor at your high school.

[00:30:44] and if you don’t have a dedicated college counselor, who are you to turn to, if not your parents? And outside help might, might help. Mm-hmm. There are some other great resources out there that provide some free college counseling as well that that families can look into. But again, hiring a college counselor to simplify your family’s journey through the college search process mm-hmm.

[00:31:06] I think makes a lot of sense. Mm-hmm. A less good reason to hire a college counselor is because you’re afraid. Of not getting into a top choice school or because that person has promised that they can get you into a particular type of institution. I think that that’s both dishonest because I don’t think that any individual college counselor can actually claim credit for the outcomes that actually really great 17

[00:31:31] Jonathan Sposato: year olds earned for themselves.

[00:31:32] That’s really interesting, Adam. I have to ask you this question, which is that if we zoom out for a second. The overall industry of consultants, how has that changed the overall admissions process sort of systemically? Has that had the impact of, I don’t know, making everybody more homogenous or making your job more difficult or easier?

[00:31:53] I

[00:31:53] Adam Miller: think that. Ultimately, it’s still a minority of applicants that are working with, I see college consultants, so I think the impact is actually relatively minimal on the industry as a whole. I think that the proliferation we have seen has probably. Had the effect of putting a little more emphasis on colleges that already get a lot of emphasis put on them.

[00:32:15] Mm-hmm. These are the colleges, makes sense. That reject 90% or more of applicants, I like to call them highly rejective colleges, the more focus that gets put on those places, I think the, the more that kind of anxiety and fear kind of increases across the board. I don’t think that’s a good outcome for applicants.

[00:32:33] But again, I think the overall impact is fairly minimal because the vast majority of the. Students applying to college this year in the United States will not have hired anybody to help them. In the process. They will apply to, again, 10 or 12 different colleges. They will get into more than half of those colleges, and they will have some really wonderful places that they could spend their next four years with or without outside help.

[00:32:57] Jonathan Sposato: Wonderful boy, I really wish that my son, who is now a rising junior. We’ll not be listening to this particular, uh, part of the podcast, Adam. How can parents encourage independence in their teens while still supporting them in the process?

[00:33:16] Adam Miller: Maybe an analogy I like to use is, I don’t know, thinking about like going on a road trip together.

[00:33:22] Jonathan Sposato: Hmm.

[00:33:22] Adam Miller: Right? And the key here is that a, the student needs to be in the driver’s seat, right? Mm-hmm. And parents can. I think ride shotgun very effectively. They can program the GPS, right? Mm-hmm. To make sure that, you know, you’ve got directions they can help point out. Exits, remind them to, to get gas on the way.

[00:33:41] Mm-hmm. Maybe even queue up a playlist, right? Mm-hmm. There’s some mm-hmm. Things that I think parents can do to make the, the, avoid some of the pitfalls and make the process more enjoyable. But if you’re grabbing the wheel every few seconds, or, you know. Shouting out every time you, you know, miss a parking spot or miss a turn.

[00:33:57] I think it’s a real danger of not giving students autonomy. So I think, yeah, like think of yourself as a copilot, but very much so. You don’t want to change the destination halfway there just because you saw a prettier billboard on the side of the road.

[00:34:14] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Let’s go inside the decision room.

[00:34:18] Walk us through the moment when an admissions committee debates. An application, what’s really happening?

[00:34:25] Adam Miller: Okay. So I wanna start by just saying that I think most of the time we’re actually on the same page and there’s not debate. Mm-hmm. Right? If we get 7,000 applicants at Whitman Uhhuh, it might be in a given year, 800 or so that we’re actually going to, to debate in I group.

[00:34:42] That that still sounds like a lot. It is a lot, yeah. Don’t get me wrong, but I’m just, you know, thinking that, you know, that’s, you know, what, 10, 12% right. Fraction that are actually, subject of debate. Mm-hmm. Because. I think if we’re doing our job well, if we’re, uh, training our staff well, and if we’re recruiting effectively, there’s a certain natural sorting out that happens after we’ve reviewed a couple applications and it’s, you know,

[00:35:04] Jonathan Sposato: this is a fascinating topic because, uh, I, I, I won’t mention which of the large publicly.

[00:35:08] Uh, did big tech companies I used to work at where we used to have these similar kinds of debate, whether it’s hiring or stack ranking members of your team against another division, heads a team. What happens in these debates?

[00:35:20] Adam Miller: Yeah, so I think when we disagree, it’s often because we’re trying to. Fill in the gaps in an application, right?

[00:35:28] Something that maybe could be cause for concern, right? A 12th grade schedule that doesn’t quite make sense based on the trajectory a student was on before. Or, an abrupt withdrawal from an activity that a student had been involved in. Or maybe like a line in an essay that just doesn’t quite read right to somebody.

[00:35:44] Okay? And so, you know. In each of those cases, there could be a very logical explanation and you might decide to give somebody the benefit of the doubt, or you might not. And to me the key takeaway there is that as an applicant, part of your job is to just not leave room for those types of interpretations.

[00:36:01] Right. I see. If. If you had to make a choice with your senior year schedule, because of a conflict with an activity or a home responsibility, or because of an illness, make sure we know. Reveal it. Reveal it. Right. That context is critical so that you’re not putting an admission committee in a situation where they’re starting to fill in the gaps.

[00:36:19] Like, well, maybe they, they’re having senioritis right now. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, maybe, they weren’t very good as the president of that club in their junior year and they got kicked. That, you know, I mean, whatever story we might be able to make up. So, I think that’s a big piece of what we end up debating is just kind of the, why was a choice made along the way, for a student.

[00:36:40] It’s pretty rare that we actually have a fundamental disagreement on like mm-hmm. Is this student like, academically qualified. Mm-hmm. We, we have standards in place to help us determine whether a student is academically qualified. Mm-hmm. You know, are, are fairly objective mm-hmm. Related to the coursework that they’ve taken and, and how they performed in that coursework.

[00:36:57] And when a student has been active and involved in their community there, there’s ways that, you know, that shows up and looks natural. So it’s really these kind of yellow flags that pop up along the way that we end up spending a lot of time talking

[00:37:07] Jonathan Sposato: about. I see. And, and so, so how did it, how do these yellow flags get resolved?

[00:37:12] Is there someone on a committee that’s just like, no, no, no. The rest of you, you’re, you guys are looking at it all wrong. It’s the person clearly got kicked out of his club and, but like

[00:37:20] Adam Miller: what happens to close? Yeah. I think it’s a spirited debate. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, often consensus. Mm-hmm. And when there’s not consensus, whoever’s chairing the committee that day, often me, will decide to land the plane and, and, and kind of make a decision so that we can move on.

[00:37:37] One of the things that I didn’t mention that is actually a part of the process is often when there’s a question that is really critical to get resolved mm-hmm. We’ll decide on a mechanism for follow up. Mm-hmm. We might reach out to the applicant for clarification. Yeah. Uh, we might reach out to a college counselor mm-hmm.

[00:37:51] At a, at a school if there is one that we can reach out to, to get some explanation. We’ll look for a way to answer the question. Mm-hmm. If that is actually the key thing that will make a determination on an applicant’s outcome.

[00:38:02] Jonathan Sposato: I see. Very good. How much do personal statements actually matter?

[00:38:08] Practice.

[00:38:09] Adam Miller: I would say they always matter, but the mileage varies. I would say they’re most impactful when they kind of add dimension or context to the rest of the application. It’s a. Piece of a student’s life or perspective. I was just at a school today working with students on their essays, and I must have 15 or 20 different students that I sat down with and they showed me their essays.

[00:38:34] So many different flavors of them, so many different approaches. Right. And at some level, all of my feedback came back, let’s make sure that this. Personal statement is adding some extra dimension to what the rest of your application is going to show us, right? So if you imagine a college admissions person reviewing an application, it.

[00:38:57] Includes a bunch of demographic information. Basically just fact-based, includes a list of all the activities somebody’s been involved with some short descriptions of those activities. It includes a high school transcript, what we call a school profile, which tells us about the school and the sorts of curriculum that’s offered there.

[00:39:14] Usually a recommendation letter or two. So all of that’s really helpful, but there aren’t many opportunities for the student’s direct voice to come through to us. And so that personal statement is the best opportunity for a student to speak directly to the college and to give us something that helps tie the application together.

[00:39:33] And again, just adds a little bit of dimension or context that in some cases might help us connect the dots from different parts of the application that didn’t otherwise connect.

[00:39:42] Jonathan Sposato: Hmm. Very good. And are there tiebreaker qualities? That can help tip the scales, uh, between say, two equally qualified applicants.

[00:39:51] Adam Miller: Yeah. So, you know, a couple things. I’d say one is that the idea of like two equally qualified applicants. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, maybe this is the gracious part of me Right. But I’m just like, yeah, well, let’s admit both of them. Mm-hmm. If they’re both equally qualified and we want them, I think that there is a perception of scarcity that I think drives a lot of the anxiety around college admissions.

[00:40:09] Mm-hmm. But again. There is a very, very small group of colleges that are so intensely selective that they are splitting hairs. Mm-hmm. Between two equally qualified applicants. Mm-hmm. Right. So that’s just not the norm. Yeah. makes sense. But that said, there are things that I do think of as being tiebreaker type.

[00:40:26] Qualities or characteristics, uhhuh, that pop up at Whitman or at other colleges? From talking to my peers, and these will vary from college to college, but I think of them as being like the institutional priorities for that institution. So as, as an example, right? Mm-hmm. If a college has like a wonderful theater program or a music program mm-hmm.

[00:40:45] Jonathan Sposato: Right? Mm-hmm.

[00:40:45] Adam Miller: A student’s not going to be admitted, maybe just because they’re a talented musician or a talented actor, but. If they’re a pretty strong applicant across the board and they need something to push them over the top, that kind of tiebreaker sort of thing, that musical talent might be the thing that that does it.

[00:41:03] You know, that could, that could be other types of talents a student might have as well. Um, it could have other things like the amount of interest a student shows in a college could be a tiebreaker in some cases or other connections they might have to a college. I think that most colleges have a general framework for how they assess an applicant’s.

[00:41:19] Suitability. And then there are some things that can be, you know, add-ons that might help tip the scales in their favor.

[00:41:26] Jonathan Sposato: Nice,

[00:41:26] Adam Miller: nice.

[00:41:27] Jonathan Sposato: Now, now, what’s the most surprising sort of tipping factor that you’ve ever encountered?

[00:41:33] Adam Miller: So I, I was surprised when I got to Whitman, and this might have been my own ignorance of, you know, the community that I was joining, right.

[00:41:39] But I, I knew that it was like an outdoorsy community. Uh, but, you know, I would see like a student who, you know, was like a certified rafting guide or, you know, a Yeah. A, really prolific climber. Yeah. And that was considered to be like a really just yeah. Exciting thing for this community. And I’m like, oh, that’s wonderful.

[00:41:55] Like, uh, yeah, sure. Let’s admit that. And, and I realize now, like of course that’s central to. A piece of our community is right, you know, that we have these wonderful programs, or ultimate Frisbee, you know, we have an amazing ultimate Frisbee team. Right. And I just came from an institution where that was hardly even a, a blip on the radar.

[00:42:12] So, I think that, yeah, those sorts of things, you know, surprise me for sure at Whitman. That’s great. Those

[00:42:17] Jonathan Sposato: are great answers. What’s the most persistent myth you would say about admissions that you wish would. Disappear forever. Oh gosh.

[00:42:28] Adam Miller: I feel like I have a long list of myths. I actually, just a couple weeks ago, we had a big program on campus and in my intro to that I presented, you know, like, I think four myths that I wanted to dispel.

[00:42:41] Mm-hmm. So I’ll just pick one of them now, which maybe is one of my, my favorite. To dispel, and I think it’s because it, it’s another one of these things that really I think plays with the mentality that students have going into the college search and adds stress in an unnecessary way. And the myth is that college will be the best four years of your life.

[00:42:58] Mm.

[00:42:59] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:00] Adam Miller: Every time I hear people say this, I just think, gosh, how sad would that be if it were true? I mean, who wants to peak at 20? I agree. Yeah. Who wants to peak at 20? Right? Right. And only four years. Yeah. It’s a springboard, right? It, the idea of college is to set you up for. A life well lived and for highlights that will continue to come one after another later in life.

[00:43:20] And, and yes, of course college should be a wonderful time. You know, you get to live with all your friends, uh, you get to have meals provided for you every day. You have, you know, accomplished faculty members who are investing in you throughout your four years. You get opportunities to study abroad, to, you know, learn new skills.

[00:43:37] I mean, it’s an amazing time. And, and there are parts of me that wish, like. Could go back and do some of those things. There’s also big parts of me that is glad that I never have to go back to college again because I, I wouldn’t say that it was the best four years of my life. So, but, but you know, the problem is if, if, if you are again, a 17-year-old trying to wade through all the complexity of a college search hard enough mm-hmm.

[00:43:57] Then you add on that this is maybe the first big decision you’ve ever had to make. In terms of your future, and as it turns out, it’s going to be not only a big dec, the first big decision, it’s also gonna be the most important decision you make in your whole life because this is the pinnacle of your existence as a human is these best four years coming up.

[00:44:14] I just don’t think that that’s a helpful framework for thinking about college. Mm-hmm. And I think the more that that gets repeated, it just adds one more layer of pressure because now it’s gotta be the best four years of li your life. You have to figure out your major to pick your best college. And, you know, it’s so hard to get into college these days, which is another myth that I like to dispel because as I said earlier, this is a great time to be applying to college.

[00:44:36] But you start lay layering all these myths on top of each other and you end up in a situation where no wonder students are so stressed throughout their 12th grade year. Yeah, that’s

[00:44:45] Jonathan Sposato: fair. That’s fair. Those are, those are wise, uh, words there. And I’m not sure the next question by the way is even fair. Um, sort of the context for it is.

[00:44:53] Is even correct, but I’ll give it a try, which is, you know, what are the most underrated extracurricular activities in the eyes of admissions officers? If there’s such a thing,

[00:45:03] Adam Miller: the thing that feels most underrated to me is the thing, or that can be two things that students most frequently omit that are actually really important parts of their lives.

[00:45:14] Hmm. One of those is part-time employment. Right. If you’ve been working part-time, Uhhuh, you know, we see students that work 15, 20 hours a week. Yeah. In some cases to help. Well, that’s a big deal with family expenses. Big. Yeah. It’s a big, big deal. And of course, that in affects the rest of your high school experience for sure.

[00:45:28] Some students don’t think it counts as an activity. Yeah. Because it doesn’t, it’s not. Formal extracurricular at their school. It’s not a club, it’s not a sport, it’s not a music ensemble. Mm-hmm. I think that’s underrated because it’s often under reported. And similarly, I would say, home responsibilities.

[00:45:44] Mm. You know, we have, uh, quite a few students at Whit who come from big families, sometimes single parents. Uh, households and they might be the oldest sibling and they have significant responsibilities, caring for younger siblings at home, sometimes doing groceries, sometimes cooking. I think about the types of skills you develop.

[00:46:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:01] Jonathan Sposato: By that,

[00:46:01] Adam Miller: not, not just the responsibility, but you know, learning how to meal prep or shop and like find the best deals on things and to create nutritious meals and things of that nature. And I think, gosh, like if you’ve been doing that for a couple years, like what an amazing foundation for. A rich and fulfilling life later on Yeah.

[00:46:19] Is also really challenging. And if we’re gonna sit there and not know about that and then wonder why you’re not super involved at your school, we’re really missing important context.

[00:46:28] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, yeah. For sure. So yeah, all those students out there take note. You know, if you’re working a part-time job helping mom out at home, you know, taking care of your siblings, reveal that stuff.

[00:46:39] Yeah. That matters. Let’s talk about the flip side of it, which is, what are some negative things? Or, or, or subtle red, I’m sure they would. By definition be sort of subtle things, red flags in an application that might knock a student out of the running.

[00:46:52] Adam Miller: Yeah. So the, the red flags question super relevant for people as they’re applying, uh, to college.

[00:46:58] I’ve got a few things that pop up. I mean, one I I referenced a little bit earlier, which is, you know, unexplained academic dips in your performance. Not all students have a smooth trajectory throughout their four years of high school. They might have been. Really strong AB students throughout their first two years and we see a dip and maybe get a couple C’s or even a D or something in their junior year.

[00:47:20] It’s really important for us to understand if there’s context behind this. And often there is, right? So unexplained academic dips probably the number one red flag. Mm-hmm. And the thing that. I think any college you’re looking at, an application is gonna highlight. Mm-hmm. And it’s gonna raise a question.

[00:47:34] Mm-hmm. Maybe more subtle than that would be inconsistent voice between pieces of an application. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think about sometimes like, I’ll see a student who writes an essay talking about how they’ve really developed into such a strong leader and, you know, love building up the people around them and supporting them.

[00:47:54] And then I get a teacher recommendation letter that talks about how they. Keep to themselves in class or how they always dominate conversations and it just, it’s kind of discordant and you start to wonder like. Does a student lacks self-awareness. Mm-hmm. What’s going on there? Mm-hmm. So I think that’s part of it.

[00:48:08] the other kind of subtle red flag is sometimes we’ll see a student who gets to their activities list, which is pretty sparse for like ninth, 10th, even 11th grade. And all of a sudden there’s a flurry of new activities that get added in 12th grade. Right. And it’s just pretty clearly for show rather than out of genuine.

[00:48:27] Interest or passion, and I think that just actually does more harm than good. it’d be, you’d be better off talking about how, you know, you’ve been really trying to find your path mm-hmm. Throughout high school and are looking forward to college mm-hmm. Where you can, you know, yeah. Get more involved in things Right.

[00:48:40] Than trying to somehow, uh, at the last minute mm-hmm. Uh, backfill your, your college application.

[00:48:45] Jonathan Sposato: Mm-hmm. Makes sense. How should students handle rejection in a healthy, productive way?

[00:48:51] Adam Miller: Okay. So yeah, that’s, I mean, I talk a lot about how important it is to reduce. Stress for students in the college process.

[00:48:58] And I think part of it is this prospect of rejection, knowing that you have to put yourself out there and you put yourself out there in a really personal way, right? I mean, we call this thing a personal statement and we’re gonna read it and then, uh, if you don’t get admitted to that college, it can feel like a personal rejection.

[00:49:14] So it’s a real concern and I think a lot of the preparation for that actually starts. from the beginning with a healthy perspective about what the goal of the college search is. If you start with the goal being one particular dream college, you’re setting yourself up for a really difficult rejection if you don’t get into that college.

[00:49:37] I think a better starting point is to say that the goal here is to get into three or four colleges. That you could see yourself attending, thriving at finding your people at, there’s thousands of colleges to choose from, so there are more. There’s more than one college that can be a really good match.

[00:49:54] And so if you cast the goal is getting into three or four places so that you have options for where to choose, it means that if any one of those options doesn’t pan out, it’s okay because yeah, maybe there’s a twinge of. Sadness about that door closing, but you’ve left yourself a lot of release valves.

[00:50:14] So I think that’s where it starts. And I’m saying this as someone who, when I was in high school, I thought from the time I was in ninth grade that like I was gonna go to Stanford, I’m in, grew up in Southern California. Mm-hmm. I was at a big public school. I think, you know, maybe every. High achieving high school student in California thought they were gonna mm-hmm.

[00:50:32] Go to Stanford or Berkeley or somewhere. Yeah. you know, and, and I was just so, uh, fixated on this mm-hmm. And took every AP class I could. Yeah. It’s natural too. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, applied there early without really ever even. Knowing what, what it was about Stanford I wanted other than a name and I guess the cache of that.

[00:50:51] And then I didn’t get in and it felt pretty crushing. Mm-hmm. Because I’d made so much of my, my journey about that. And frankly, I think I’m fortunate that both I had really loving and supporting parents who. Couldn’t care less whether I went to Stanford or any other college. Mm-hmm. They just, you know, unconditionally loved me.

[00:51:08] Mm-hmm. And that, that, that meant a lot, because I didn’t feel any rejection or disappointment from them. That’s great. But also I think having been an athlete, I’d experienced a lot of, uh, disappointment in my life. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Uh, I lost a lot of games that I had been prepared for. I was a pitcher, in baseball and sometimes you make a great pitch and.

[00:51:30] The guy still gets a hold of it. Mm-hmm. And you gotta tip your cap. Yeah. And I think I had at least trained myself by that point to know that one setback didn’t define me. Mm-hmm. So I think that’s, that’s a hard thing to do though. And I’m really grateful for some of the life experience that I had had that had prepared me for that.

[00:51:46] But I really wish I could go back and have started my college search in a different way with a broader view of what I wanted. And as it turns out. I’m really glad things worked out the way they did because I ended up finding a college that I thrived at and wouldn’t have wanted it to play out any differently.

[00:52:00] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, totally. Things absolutely worked out great For you, what factors should students weigh beyond rankings or brand name prestige?

[00:52:10] Adam Miller: This is a very timely question. I actually, uh, recently presented with Whitman’s Director of Institutional Research mm-hmm. Who wrote a book on what really matters in college.

[00:52:20] Mm. And we did a presentation for some prospective students and families mm-hmm. On his research and kind of how that plays out at Nice, at Whitman. So at the risk of like rehashing, uh, uh, an hour long presentation in 20 seconds, I’ll sir, throw out a couple. Please do. I, I’m fascinating things. Right. So, you know, one of the things that, uh, his research found is that.

[00:52:37] Part of like in terms of academic success? Mm-hmm. A real critical element is ways that challenge and support are paired together at an institution. Something we think we do really well at Whitman, but that academic transformation doesn’t happen if you’re not challenged. Right. You need to be pushed to, Go beyond what is comfortable for you, but being pushed off the deep end with no support. Isn’t always a great experience either, and I think knowing that you have a place that you’re, is gonna be at the right level for academic challenge for you. If it’s too easy, you’re not going to grow. But to know that if there are ways that that college can support you, whether that’s in finding research opportunities or with tutoring that you might need, or writing center or whatever it might be having that challenge and support paired up is really critical.

[00:53:24] Another thing that the kind of research bore out was that. The opportunity to try new things is really transformational for students, and I think this is an easy thing to kind of miss for students looking at colleges because you only know what you know. And so I think a lot of times a student will say, well, I’m gonna go to college and I know I want to do.

[00:53:44] This thing that I’ve been involved with in high school, I wanna write for the school paper. Or maybe they’ve, they have an idea of like, a journey of fraternity or sorority would be really meaningful for me, or I wanna play a sport, or whatever it might be. And those things might end up being really meaningful to a student.

[00:53:58] But again, the research finds that when students find new interests and passions and have an opportunity to engage in those things in really meaningful ways, that that ends up. It’s expanding their worldview and kind of preparing them for what’s next in ways that continuing to do the thing that they’ve been doing all along.

[00:54:15] It’s wonderful, but it’s not necessarily as impactful. I think about that in so many of the students that I meet where maybe they came to Whitman because they wanted to play baseball or they wanted to be involved in music, and they do keep doing that thing, and that’s a wonderful part of their experience.

[00:54:28] But it ends up being that kind of outdoor program that kind of unlocks that love of the outdoors, or it ends up being kind of. Going out, like being involved in theatrical production when you’d never been involved in theater before, that kind of helps you mm-hmm. Develop some of the stage confidence or whatever it might be, that those types of things end up being transformational and really special for students.

[00:54:48] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. If you could make every high schooler in America read one book before applying to college,

[00:54:54] Adam Miller: there is a book that I read recently that I actually think. Could be like, could be my recommendation. It’s called The Art of Possibility. Ah, yeah. It’s by Rosamond, uh, stone Xander and Benjamin Xander. And I would just say like in general, it’s about swapping stress for curiosity.

[00:55:12] Hmm. And I think there’s a way that, you know, it could encourage students to see the college process not as winning or losing, but. Rather than discovering kind of great opportunities that they might not have noticed before. So I think that could be a decent, you know, starting point. Yeah. There are a few good books about the college process itself, that, you know, I, I, I might recommend as well, like who gets into college and why?

[00:55:35] By Jeff Slingo. Mm-hmm. Or even like the price you pay for college mm-hmm. By Ron Lieber. Oh. which I think for families that are kind of. Worried about cost. Mm-hmm. I think I can really unpack some of the myths around college, uh, costs, but, you know. Yeah.

[00:55:49] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Okay.

[00:55:51] Imagine you could give every parent of a high school junior one single sticky note of advice. What would it say? And then if you can, if you could give the student. Another sticky note. What would that say?

[00:56:07] Adam Miller: I think I’m gonna, for the parent sticky note, I’m gonna draw on something I said a minute ago about my parents and also something that a, a good friend of mine who’s a college counselor at a, at a high school, I just had dinner with him recently, and he says to all of the, the parents of his juniors that he starts working with.

[00:56:24] and what he tells ’em is that like you have one job in this process and it is to make sure that your child knows that they’re loved unconditionally. The same way that I felt that from my parents. I think that at a time where you have the potential for anxiety And stress to feeling inadequate To feel judged. I think that there’s no more important thing for a parent to do Than ensure that like the one thing that your child feels at the end is that. They are loved unconditionally. There are other things that parents can do to be helpful along the way, don’t get me wrong, but I think man, start first things first and, that as a critical bedrock, I think feels really important.

[00:57:04] I think for fantastic students, I would just say like, you know, embrace possibility or embrace your options. Right. This idea, again. A college search well conceived, broadens possibility rather than narrowing it. Mm-hmm. And I think so many students start the way that I did with one goal in mind, one school.

[00:57:26] It’s a missed opportunity for self-discovery in the college search. I mean, one of the best things that can happen, I mean you used the word right of passage in in your intro, and I think of. The best version of a college search is one that serves as a sort of rite of passage, This transition into adulthood, a chance for you to be independent and to really wrestle with these questions of purpose and meaning, and if you can embrace that, opening yourself up to possibility is the goal.

[00:57:53] Rather than narrowing yourself in on one particular goal, I think you’re in a much better place.

[00:57:59] Jonathan Sposato: Very good. Where can our listeners find out more about whether it’s Whitman College or more broadly about great institutions, uh, in our region? Yeah, no, that’s a great question.

[00:58:11] Adam Miller: There’s a really great free tool.

[00:58:15] That’s a relatively new called the College Guidance Network. and Whitman’s not partnered with them or anything, but I think they do a really good job of pulling together tools for both the college search and for. Uh, navigating the application process. There’s also, uh, Whitman is part of a group of colleges called the Colleges that Change lives.

[00:58:32] Mm-hmm. It’s a wonderful group of, uh, of mostly smaller schools that I think are very student focused and really committed to student success. And there are multiple colleges here in the Pacific Northwest that are colleges that change lives members. I think that’s a good way to maybe broaden out a college search.

[00:58:48] They do an annual tour around the country mm-hmm. Including stops in, in both Seattle and Portland. Mm-hmm. So, you know, that can be a nice way to kind of. Maybe think about some schools that you wouldn’t have otherwise heard of. Mm-hmm. Both here in the Northwest and nationwide.

[00:59:00] Jonathan Sposato: I see. Very good. Well, I wanna thank you, Adam, for joining us as our guest today.

[00:59:05] I’m not at all surprised by the outcome of this, which is that I learned a ton from you. So many fundamental things about the college admission process. So many things ended up being demystified. Thank you for giving me us this opportunity to ask you all kinds of questions that we’ve, that we’ve just been dying to know more about.

[00:59:23] Adam. Thank you. I can’t be grateful to you enough, and I hope that you’ve enjoyed it as much as I have. Thanks, Jonathan. This was a lot of fun.